Quantcast
Pakistan wants the Damocles targeting pod for JF-17
May 27, 2017

Pakistan wants the Damocles targeting pod for JF-17

08 April 2016

By Bilal Khan

In an interview with Reuters, Air Marshal Muhammad Ashfaque Arain – the second-in-command of the Pakistan Air Force (PAF) – revealed that the PAF was seeking the Damocles targeting pod for use on the JF-17 Thunder.

Produced by the French defence vendor Thales, the Damocles is a third-generation targeting pod designed to enable fighter aircraft to engage in precision-strike operations.

Similar in form and function to the Lockheed Martin Sniper Advanced Targeting Pod (ATP) in use with the PAF’s F-16s, the Damocles is equipped with electro-optical and infrared (EO/IR) instruments that mark targets for laser-guided and TV-guided air-to-surface munitions.

Since its introduction in 2008-2009, the Damocles has emerged as a fairly popular precision-strike support system, with about six air forces adopting the targeting pod. In fact, besides French-built fighters such as the Dassault Rafale and Mirage 2000-5/9, the Damocles is also in use with numerous Sukhoi platforms, such as Malaysia’s Su-30MKM as well as Russia’s Su-34s, Su-27s, and even Su-24s.

This news is interesting on a few levels.

First, it was plainly stated by a very high-ranking PAF official, which is certainly not a common occurrence in the world of Pakistani defence acquisitions. When one reports about Pakistani interest in any defence system, it is usually done through the use of media reports that claim to have credible unnamed sources. In the case of the Damocles, the news is coming straight from the PAF itself.

Second, Air Marshal Arain’s statements about the JF-17 not having a targeting pod casts a bit of doubt on the trade-registers of the Stockholm International Peace Research Institute (SIPRI), at least with regards to Pakistan. SIPRI actually claims that the PAF took delivery of 65 WMD-7 targeting pods from China (along with a slew of laser-guided and INS/GPS-guided air-to-surface munitions). But the statements made by Air Marshal Arain seem to suggest that the PAF has not actually settled on the JF-17’s strike package, at least in regards to the fighter’s targeting pod, but potentially even in terms of its munitions as well.

Third, according to Air Marshal Arain, the PAF’s interest in the Damocles is borne from the fact that it has seen extensive combat use. This is true. In fact, not only have the French used the Damocles (with their Rafales) in various theatres over the past 5 years, but so have the Russians and the Gulf Arab states (i.e. Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates). The PAF has a record it can assess before moving forward with its acquisition.

Overall, the Damocles is not a bad choice, and though it may seem like an unlikely contender for use on the JF-17 at first, there are a few things about the Damocles that do make it a suitable choice for the Thunder. The pod’s combat record aside (which gives the PAF an idea of its effectiveness), Thales has not had any significant problems with integrating the Damocles on a diverse range of platforms, including Eastern aircraft such as the Flanker, Fullback, and Fencer. Of course, this should not be an issue today given the standardization of subsystem interface technology, but still, living examples of Damocles’ use on non-native (especially non-Western) platforms is a very welcoming indication.

Another aspect worth considering is the fact that the Damocles has been paired with air-to-surface munitions from a diverse range of vendors. For example, the French have used the Damocles with their own guided-bombs (i.e. SAGEM AASM), but the Russians have used it with their own homemade KAB-series kits. The UAE has used the Damocles with its al-Tariq guided-bombs (which are license-built versions of the Umbani kit offered by the South African vendor Denel).

The Damocles’ successful integration with a diverse range of launch platforms and guided-munitions makes it a suitable option for the JF-17. Make no mistake, this is a good targeting pod. For example, not only can it guide laser and TV-guided munitions (at day and at night), but it can also acquire target coordinates at stand-off range, which could then be inputted into INS/GPS-guided bombs. It can even be used for reconnaissance, albeit to a lesser degree of effectiveness compared to a dedicated photo-reconnaissance pod.

Air Marshal Arain also noted that if the Damocles could not be acquired, the PAF would have to settle for ‘unproven’ options. He is likely referring to the Chinese WMD-7 and potentially Turkish ASELPOD. While a point, there is not much to discuss in this regard. The PAF is looking to push the JF-17 into combat in relatively short order, and it wants it to succeed right from the onset. Note, it is not simply an issue of wanting a Western pod, it could have opted for the ASELPOD or even Thales’ newer Talios, but the PAF wants the older Damocles precisely because it is – in the words of Air Marshal Arain – “a battle-proven system.”

Should the PAF acquire the Damocles, it should be mindful of the following issues. First, the PAF needs to consider long-term viability, not only in terms of the pod’s capabilities, but in terms of guaranteeing its long-term support within the PAF fleet. Although a more expensive route, it would not be a bad idea to acquire the Damocles with some measure of technology transfer, if not for domestic production, then for in-house maintenance and support, at the minimum. In fact, given that the newer Thales Talios is to enter service in 2018 and gradually replace the Damocles in French service, Thales might not be averse to the idea of letting Pakistan produce the Damocles under license (albeit for the ‘right’ price).

Another system that might be worth considering – alongside the Damocles – is the Thales Digital Joint Reconnaissance Pod (DJRP), a photo-reconnaissance pod squarely designed for lightweight fighters on the export market. We had advocated the idea of giving the JF-17 a dedicated photo-reconnaissance pod nearly a month ago, albeit through purchasing a system from the Danish firm Terma. An alternative is Thales, but again, genuine value would only be had by bringing the maintenance and support infrastructure to Pakistan, at least. Otherwise, the PAF will be beset with having to contract Thales on a routine basis to help support its subsystems. This is true for any vendor, which is one of the reasons why acquiring systems with transfer-of-technology is a valid – though expensive – idea.

This will be seen as too far of a stretch, but Pakistan ought to acquire the Damocles (and any other subsystem from Thales) with not only the license to produce it in-house, but also re-export it alongside the JF-17 as well. Not only could this approach help compensate for the cost of producing the pods in Pakistan, but it would also raise the profile of the JF-17 on the commercial market. In any case, this is simply pie in the sky thinking on our part, though worth considering. It will also be interesting to see if a successful Damocles purchase could lead to the purchase of the TopOwl-F helmet-mounted display and sight (HMD/S) for use on the JF-17 Block-III (the helicopter version of the TopOwl will join the Pakistan Army via its AH-1Z Viper acquisition).

  • Some very valid points you have noted here Bilal. Could the reason of expressing its interest might be its inclusion in JF-17 Block III?

    • Actually, I think the PAF is looking to integrate the Damocles onto its current JF-17 Block-I/IIs as soon as possible. In terms of Block-III, the PAF is hoping to get a dedicated hardpoint for pods.

      -Bilal

    • Catalyst

      Sorry for jumping in here. I think the idea would be to incorporate targeting pod on the Block II, since other improvements i.e IFR probe, On-board Oxygen system etc are indicative characteristics of a “Strike” package aircraft.

  • jigsaww

    I guess we could all expect the following headline in few hours from across the border:

    “Hindustan threatens to cancel Rafale acquisition over possible sale of Damocles pod to Pakistan”.

    Pakistan should seriously expect that.

    Another interesting mention was that PAF is looking to start retiring its F-16s and JF-17s starting 2030.

    • MT

      French won’t sell u such pods if India continue to buy French subs, fighter jet

      • jigsaww

        But Hindustan is not buying. It’s just showing the money that probably does not exist anywhere.

        I think sooner or later French will realise that.

        On a second thought, I agree with you. I don’t expect France to sell any more significant weaponry to Pakistan. That will depend on how significant Damocles is to France. It just might be possible, you never know.

        There are other possibilities in any case.

        Anything that is not battle proven, PAF will make it battle proven 🙂

        • MT

          India is bargaining rafale & it ll buy if French bring down price to 9Bill$for 36 rafale.

          F18 deal is for local production of 100-120MMRCA

          • jigsaww

            Yes but that’s a big if, you see. It just might never happen.

            Also for Rafale to be effective, it needs to be in service with IAF by 2020, all 36 fighters.

            Beyond 2020/22, Rafale will not pose any significant threat to PAF because of new acquisitions of LR SAMs and new fighter jets.

            It’s becoming less of a concern with every passing year.

          • MT

            India have to pay 9bill$ over 4 yrs.
            So not a problem with Indian defense budget of 51bill$
            pak won’t be getting aid from usa post 2017/ so who is going to pay for cheeni lrsam & 5gen fighters while cheen prfering s400 over substandard hq9

          • jigsaww

            I guess Hindustan is going through the aid cut off problem, so you’d better know.

            What i know is that US aid is hardly used in defence acquisitions, it goes mostly to gov and then corrupted.

            The FMF and FMS part could come to a halt, but that will go against the mutual interest of US and Pakistan. No change in american presidency can have severe effects on US-Pak relations, since US gov needs to follow certain foreign policy assessments in line with pentagon’s directions. US is welcome to cut off military reimbursements, in which case Pakistan will also cut off joint ops and supply routes.

            It’s a matter of give and take on both sides.

          • MT

            Indian not getting any aid from usa from last 20 yrs. Infact india gives bill $ aid to many countries in 2016. Indian govt revenue grow 15 % yearly. So India can afford 10% defense hike yearly
            Us wants results. Pak army failure on Taliban ll make room for sanction against Taliban sponsorer in 2017

            Us don’t care a damn abt Afghanistan they r already talking to Taliban & would not need Pak services

            USA Pak have no common interests. USA wants to focus on China pivot while Pak Taliban Nexus has diverted USA energy on useless activity on Islamist zombies

            Su30 r going to get 4th gen litening pod this year end from Israel

            Tejas mk1a too ll get the same configuration

          • jigsaww

            I think that’s all going to change with Pakistan exposing Hindustan’s terrorist activities and support in near future. It is being exposed at every level to show to the world and US that it is Hindustan supporting all terrorism in Pakistan.

            Today US State department has acknowledged HIndustani terrorist’s arrest in Pakistan through an official announcement.

            Many things will change from here on.

            Bharat is banking on US cease of support to Pakistan. At the end of the day, US has its own interest with Pakistan.

            It’s a matter of give and take, like i said.

          • MT

            ROFL . Pak ISPR propaganda even failed to convince Pak civilian govt
            While iran president slapped your Ponzi general
            USA knows pK in and out
            Did Pak ISPR use fake wikileak cable of US state department.😀 they hav track record of fooling u guys

          • jigsaww

            I don’t think they’re really ROFL in the RAW HQ and Hindustani gov.
            Everyone knows everyone inside out, like we do Hindustan, it’s just exposing it to the world now.

          • MT

            As usual all those countries didn’t even speak on such malicious imaginary Isi statements.

            State of Pak has no credibility. No country in world will even bother opening those garbage dossier.

          • jigsaww

            Iran is on board, China is on board, and today US state dept has given an official statement of acknowledgement Hindustani RAW agent being arrested from Pakistan. NATO is being briefed as well.

            It is just the start which was missing because of an old senile man in charge of NSA position, which now is being driven directly by the Army and ISI.

            All these countries actually know Hindustan’s involvement in spreading of terrorism in Pakistan. Pakistan only needs to reimpose that face of Hindustan with more frequency and proofs. This has been decided now by Pakistan Army in principle. All American think tanks and intel agencies are already on board on this verified information about Hindustani consulates’ terrorist ops in Pakistan.

            The only thing RAW and hindustanis have left to do is make hue and cry in media. Behind the scenes, it’s pretty much a shameful and gory scene for RAW’s exposition.

            The operation and exposition is primarily aimed at pushing Hindustan off its feet and gaining the leverage and vantage point at whether to talk with Hindustan or not and what should be the agenda, besides obvious cleanup of hindustani infestation from Pakistan. Bharti NSA is now a direct accomplice after RAW agent’s arrest, hence Bharat won’t have much to garbage about talks or on table from here on. It does not matter what the prestitude Hindustani media is printing, at the table Hindustanis can’t sit face to face now with Pakistan.

            This will only get worse with more RAW agent’s getting arrested in coming months.

          • MT

            Are you living in a different universe. Feel sad for you naive Pakistani.Pak have no bargaining power with any country China support u as they want to keep India entangled in Pak sponsored terrorism. No other countries care a DAmn abt Pak which needs imf and USA aid to survive

            Man; u r very funny.Iran showed u middle finger last week after ur dumb general humiliated their president. India being top oil importer of Iran with half million barrels day & Pak Isi evil eyes against chabhahar port as they abducted an Indian who was working on their strategic port ll further infuriate Iran

          • jigsaww

            I have a feeling i’m getting through you. You always get personal and retort to cheapness whenever I show you your face.

            That is exactly happening at every level between Hindustan and Pakistan now, whether behind the scenes or in public.

            You can create comments based on your wishes and fantasies but that does not change the truth.

            Business as usual will continue. You think you hindustanis are something. you are just a little piece of a broken brick in the whole picture. US has almost largest trade with China in the world while being pretty much enemies of each other, likewise for Russia and many countries.

            This is business. That is foreign policy.

            Pakistan will keep you fixated at little things while creating a strategy out of CPEC with China, russia, and whole central Asia. That is because Pakistan understand hindustani’s mind. You think little, you act little (i mean cheap), you strategize little. You will be cornered to making allies in insignificant countries like bangladesh and bhutan.

          • MT

            U hurled allegations of us state Dept accepting fallacies of ISPR which I refuted with their official denial

            CPEC have flopped. Just look at FDI of Pak.all u ll get from cpec is 4-5% debt of loans with 40-50% profit to china at cost of sub standard cheeni maal

            India received 65-70 bill$ FDI in 2015.India adds 25000MW energy yearly which is more than total production of Pak. India makes 15000km highway yearly and 1000km railway line & mined 600 mill tons coal which is 50 times Pak yearly consumption.

            So stop dreaming Mr high iq

          • jigsaww

            I am Mr. Hi. IQ.
            Are you having a problem coping with it?

            CPEC has flopped? Yeh? I guess our sun has also been eaten by a black hole.

          • MT

            1bill$ FDI from China in a year with total fdi of lss than 1.5 bill $ doesn’t give a promising picture

          • jigsaww

            46 billion USD is the total investment.
            2 billion USD has been signed today with Xinjiang only.

            You need to understand CPEC is more about China than it is for Pakistan.
            I can understand your deep hearted wishes for it to fail and Pakistan to basically dismantle, but it’s just your hate, not the reality on ground.

            Don’t let your hate give you a hangover. It kinda blinds you from the truth.

          • MT

            be happy with those MOU

            Pak state bank FDI nos expose how successful cpec is

          • jigsaww

            If the MoUs are making you go insane, what will an eventual completion of CPEC do to whole Hindustan? Why do you even care if it’s just MoUs?

            We wouldn’t want our obsessed neighbour to have a national mental breakdown but by all means the medical emergency seems imminent.

            Which is why i urge you to not let your hate guide you. CPEC will be completed at all costs, but we also want Hindustanis to be available at ribbon cutting ceremony, not admitted to mental asylums.

          • middleway1

            Funny! I like that! Actually that’s exactly how it is. They are obsessed with Pakistan and can’t stand to see anything good happening there.

          • jigsaww

            Hindustanis hate Pakistan to down their cellular level, and they just can’t hide it. You can make it out so easily the way they talk. And it’s all giving them a nervous breakdown, and i’m actually serious saying that.

          • MT

            The State Bank of Pakistan (SBP), the central bank, reported that FDI into Pakistan rose by 4.8 per cent during July-February period of the current fy-2016. The net FDI inflow during these eight months was $750.9 million as compared to $716.2 million in the corresponding period of fy-2015. The gross inflow of FDI during this period was $1.3 billion, while the outflow was $583 million, the central bank said. The outflows mainly comprised repatriation of dividends and profits earned by foreign investors.
            The UAE came second only to China, with an investment of $111 million. Saudi Arabia committed $105 million and Hong Kong $101 million during the July-February fy-2016, the SBP said.

          • MT

            QUESTION: The Pakistanis have arrested what they say is an agent of India in Balochistan. They say that he was fomenting the insurgency that they have there. And since they protest this arrest, the Pakistani ambassador to Delhi has said that the talks between the two countries are frozen while this is being looked into, that there’s been a breakdown in the Pakistani-Indian rapprochement as a result of this. I don’t know if you have any information about the arrest itself, whether the U.S. is aware of that particular case, but also more broadly on the geopolitical implications if there is a – if there is —

            MR TONER: I don’t have anything for – I am aware of the reports about the arrest. I don’t have anything – any details of the arrest. More directly to your question about the suspension of peace talks, the peace process, we believe and it’s been our longstanding position that India and Pakistan stand to benefit from the normalization of relations and practical cooperation, and we encourage them to do so, to engage in direct dialogue that’s aimed at reducing tensions between the two governments and two countries. And we strongly support those efforts, because we believe it, obviously, will lead to greater stability and peace in the region and is to the benefit of both countries.

            ROFL.A paki Isi Dallal asked a dumb question & us Dept said clearly that he is not aware about any such arrest if u can understand formal English which is rarely taught in madrassa

          • SP

            India is increasing its debt and would have to increase taxes to repay the debt. India has been printing money to make ends meet and things could get worse when the oil prices go up again.

          • MT

            Debt to GDP going down for India since 2000.
            Indian debt rating is 2notch above investment.

            Tax collection are going up. Dollar rupee is 66 which is high due to inflationary measure added by USA since 2008 recession.
            India military budget to GDP stands at 2%.

          • MT

            India recorded a Government Debt to GDP of 66.10 percent of the country’s Gross Domestic Product in 2014. Government Debt to GDP in India averaged 73.66 percent from 1991 until 2014, reaching an all time high of 84.30 percent in 2003 and a record low of 65.80 percent in 2013. Government Debt to GDP in India is reported by the Ministry of Finance, Government of India.

          • jigsaww

            Hindustan has been faking its GDP growth.

            ——-
            Hindustan GDP growth is one-third statistical illusion

            HIndustan’s GDP growth is now one-third a statistical mirage. Unless something has changed dramatically in recent years in how companies and consumers behave, the economy is more likely to be expanding at 5 percent, not the 7.5 percent claimed by the authorities.

            The illusion comes from a recent supposed improvement in the way Bharat calculates its Gross Domestic Product. In theory, Indian GDP is now closer to international standards. In practice it has become utterly unreliable. Depending on it could easily lead India’s monetary policy astray.

            ——–

            Utterly unreliable is the world to focus on, in usual terms, it’s a synonym for “FAKE”.

          • SP

            The external debt of India is 500 billion usd, which works out to approx. Usd400 per person. In absolute terms this is the hoghest. State bank is printing money to give the illusion of growth in economy. 1 year ago rupee was trading at 62 to usd, currently it is 66 to usd and is expected to be 69/70 per usd after a further year. The illusion of growth is going to kick India in the back.

          • MT

            80% debt is owned by indian MNC borrowed from western bank at cheap rates

            usd to rupee waa 67 in 2013. so its oscillating between 62-67 over last 2 months

          • SP

            So the Tatas and Ambanis as well as the Western firms are getting richer and whilst the poor Indian is getting poorer as ultimately he will have to repay loans taken out by MNC.

          • MT

            tata and others pay back their loans as they have bill $ surplus.

            borrowing from West is very cheap as compared to 8-9 % in india & they pay their debt from money earned abroad.

          • SP

            If they are earning money abroad then the loans would be taken by their subsidiaries abroad and not counted as external debt of India.

            If they are earning money abroad then why are the Tatas demanding money from UK government otherwise saying they will close their plant in UK as according to them they are losing money there? Are they telling the truth or lying to get the money from uk govt.

          • MT

            Tata is not a charity. it is shutting down its corus steel business in UK as it is losing bill$yearly in Uk steel manufacturing.
            They haven’t demanded any money. In fact they have decided to sell or shut down their entire uk steel plants if they do not find any takers.

            its UK government who is interested in job security of steel workers. so they are probably going to buy Tata steel UK for pennies.
            Tata just wants to get rid of all those 10-12 uk steel planta
            Tata or any company who take loan from abroad for expansion of indian business in india, us or uk are considered in calculations of external debt if loans were raised in name of indian companies operating from Mumbai.

          • SP

            They have built up £15 billion in pension fund liabilities, have repatriated profit to india and now want to close their operation. Another Indian wants to buy but wants support from uk govt. So basically Indians want to get their profit but want the UK government to pay their bills.

          • MT

            Go and read in detail. That is total pension fund managed by British steel for decade.
            Tata contributed large chunk to pension fund. If UK steel company survives them there is no problem as company & employee contribute to pension funds
            In case steel plant collapse then how is Tata liable to pay to people for company once it shut down.
            It’s like asking a company to pay for your life time salary once they close their business

          • MT

            tata have lost many billion $ from uk steel. They invested 4bill £ & wrote off 2 bill £ losses in last 5yrs.

            This is on top of their 7bill £ investment in buying Tata steel Europe.
            Currently uk steel arm of tata is worth penny. so what do u expect from a company which has lost 22-24 bill $ in uk steel while incapable uk govt veto European anti dumping tax against cheeni vheapt steel for some favors from china.
            Uk govt in fact puts 100 % more green tax on steel makers as compared to Spain germany sweden.

            After giving numerous warning Tata have decided to say ta ta to UK.

            Do realise that tata steel india have sustained tata steel uk with most of tata steel india profits diverted to sustain UK steel loss making business.
            Had tata steel invested 20 bill $:-in indian steel organically then they would be getting return of 4-5 bil $ yearly profit from Indian tata steel operation

            Eventually Tata is making some money from steel business of other European tata steel plants while jaguar land rover is doing gr8.

            But given pathetic state of uk govt policy I reckon tata to sell JLR on premium prices & derisk from manufacturing in UK

          • SP

            Tata has lost £6 billion according to you which is like 600 billion rupees, so this amount will have to be repaid by the poor indians?

          • MT

            Tata steel India paid for it. They haven’t made a single penny from last 7 yrs as they had to accrue losses for UK operations

          • xicor khan

            lol india is aiding other countries??? 98% INDIAN POPULATION IS HUNGRY AND POOOOR AND NO TOILETS….INDIA DEFINATELY SEND AID TO OTHERS COUNTRIES FOR TERRORISM .. FOR EX: SYRIA IRAQ
            PAKISTAN NEPAL BANGLADESH KASHMIR

          • MT

            Check indian budget 2016.

            india provides free meal to 400-500 mill poor indians.

            I do not expect logical discussion from madrasaa bred people

          • jigsaww

            Did you get your free meal today? Just wondering.

          • Mustafa O

            Yup just like we dont exlect any sense from a modi toady. First make toilets for 700 million people who defecate in open. Bbc report. These madrassa guys will haunt u when time comes. Stay logical. Dont cross the line

          • Rahul

            Says the hamitic nilot paki, cross breeding with his wahhabi masters through Muttaa, you only know how to stab helpless animals like camels and bulls and watch them bleed slowly through the jugular, while their lungs heave and gasp for breath in their death spasm. Such barbaric cruelty, Meanwhile the semi savage womenfolk ullulate and the semi savage men dance and celebrate the “qurbani” like they have made a real sacrifice, a worthwhile sacrifice to their moon god all lat. And then you have the termity to question islamic phobia among all civililzations, be it buddhist, christian or hindu.

          • Mustafa O

            Oh , we have a savior of modi toady albiet with a tinge of hindu stink and a blackee outlook. Look rapee and low breeder, go look ur self in a mirror and then guage urself if u deserve any respect. Stop drinking cow piss and stop using kama sutra as an excuse to rape poor helpless indian women with ur 4 inchers… Scum

          • Rahul

            Says the dirty pakistani with an “IT company called Axact” which changed the rules of fake degrees and fraud, and took it to corporate levels, making fraud a business, only a pakistani or nigerian can come up with that, and in this league you beat the habshis hands down. Thats you have the highest visa rejection rates and deportation rates from OECD countries.

          • jigsaww

            Hey new addition. I can name you a hundred scams and fake schools in Hindustan in a 10 km2 area. It’s not like world doesn’t know you hindustanis, right? I know you don’t want me starting on that. However, the episode of Axact still does not fractionally match the national GDP growth fraud that Hindustani Government and all its gov machinery, state bank, and bureaucracy are committing for last God knows how many years at a state level, without ever being caught or noticed by ANY Bharti state institution.

            Now that’s dirty. That is shame.

      • Yaseen Iqbal

        We’ll fuck India soon!

      • We’ll leave it to France to decide. The PAF wouldn’t even bother making such statements if there wasn’t a chance it could happen, irrespective of the Indian Rafale deal.

        • MT

          Pak have habit of declaring fake sells as they did with Su35- French would never sell such pods if they make deal with India on rafale-

          • jigsaww

            You are still burning your blood over a pod?

            I think Pakistan can kill Hindustanis without firing a single bullet, only if they start giving out more news of defence sales.
            The kind of nervous breakdown you are going through. Gosh.

            It’s just a news man. Give yourself a break. Go take some Coke, spring is here.

            P.S: SU-35 is an on-going discussion. Russian were the first to announce the “talks”, not “sales”. It’s not buying eggs. Bharat ran an MMRCA for entire decade without any result, and then some (Rafale drama). Talk of fake buys.

          • MT

            Contact us if Paris agree to sell

          • jigsaww

            us? who’s us?

          • Lol. No need, you’ll come over yourself.

          • jigsaww

            LOL.

      • Qasim57

        India’s been dragging it’s feet on deals for ages. The 126 Rafales have now become 36, and even those are far from certain.

        Previously, the French have resisted Indian pressure to sell subs to Pak in the 2000s(India had to resort to terrorists specifically targeting French engineers in Karachi).

        • MT

          36 Rafale cost approximately 10 bill $>

          Y would French sell few mill $ pod & lose 10 bill business

          French have banned all critical eqpmnt sale to Pak post 2005

        • MT

          By the way India is buying 9 French SSK . they are being constructed in India. French r not giving up juicy businesses for peanuts from pak

          • Qasim57

            India has a habit of “talk talk talk”. And then cancelling deals and starting from scratch. Let’s see what happens.

            There are numerous other options, including the newer Thales’ Talios, ASELPOD, or even China’s own WMD-7.

            I dunno if you’re some “super-patriotic” dude with too much free time, you’re desperately posting on every comment on a Pakistani defence site :). You should chill out, being over-eager here just shows India in a negative light.

          • MT

            6+ 3 scorpion submarine from France is under manufacturing at mumbai.

            1 was inducted this year.
            india have far better relationship than its neighbourhood viz a viz pakistan who is the problem in South Asia.
            Bangladesh get 1bill $:yearly aid from india. Nepal ^ bhutan Myanmar are part of our civilisation.
            india attacked cheeni backed rebel who used to operate from Myanmar

            Myanmar helped india cleanse them. A northern East india has been stable over last 1yr. we have cleansed all rebels
            north east economy is booming with terror incident in single digit over last2yrs

            kashmiri sunni wahabi & some naxalites who operate in chattisgarh dense forest are few remaining weeds.

            shaheen3 is still under development. it uses 70 era cheeni long march 1 jet vanes.

            so even though it may achieve range to andamans : they ll be intercepted very easily with pak rocket programme at least 4 decades behind india

          • jigsaww

            Great. Look on the bright side. You’d have roughly about 10 minutes after having an early warning from Sats and all. That should give you enough time to ask for forgiveness from the hate you’ve been spreading all your life.

            I guess you should start preparing your hole right now. I don’t think 10 minutes will get you far.

          • MT

            pak missile are pretty much rudimentary 70era technology. india china russia usa all have hypersonic gliding missile which does zig jag interfacing in non linear 3 d kinematics making them impossible to intercept..

            india tested k4 slbm with range of 3500km from Arihant this week.
            k4 doesn’t even go outside exosphere. so it remains in at the altitude of 50-100 km below karmal line

            pak still feeling pride In four decades old cheeni long march 1 shaheen engine.

            its a version better than scud
            The missile parameters are very easy to mimic. indian radars have already enough info from shaheen telemetry data.
            interception of shaheen which doesn’t even have MARV capabilities & can barely correct altitude and post separation of RV making it a poorer missile than Persian emad missile & north korean rocket.
            Mirv is 2-3 decade outside from pak tech capabilities as Nescom can’t do nothing more than integration and fine tuning after indigenous suparco missile were shunted in favor of china m11-m18/nescom & khan lab/n korean nodong.

            china have just manged to induct Mirv post 2012.. china wont be gifting such tech to nescom & pak needs to learn basics of rocket propulsion and systems development for 2-3 decades.

            let me remind u that isro ll be launching 22 satellites from single slv.
            keep dreaming and blaming your govt for destroying all local r&d in favor of cheaper chinese procured weapons which have limited your capabilities

          • jigsaww

            We get it. Hindustan is doing so good with gathering all the weapons on “war footing”. It’s great for your confidence, or is it?

            But. Why are you still freaking out? Have a heart.

            I assure you Hindustan will be given full chance to test it’s BMD shields.

            All good things come in good time. Patience.

          • MT

            lately india have armed k15:&; tested k4:3500 km SLBM which ll take care of pak & chinese naval bases respectively

            indian bmd programme is more advanced than pak primitive rocket integration industry at Nescom when pak shunted indigenous r&d of Suparco in favor of imported cheeni M11-M 18 / shaheen 1-2

          • Qasim57

            Dude MT, you can believe whatever helps you sleep at night.

            It doesn’t have to be based on fact, and it doesn’t need one iota of solid evidence.

            Pakistan and India have had three wars. After nuclear capability, no more wars, but both sides seem very capable of terrorism in each other’s soil. The core issue is Kashmir. India agreed to a UN-sponsored plebicite but has since refused; the Kashmiri population resists a massive Indian Army presence, and India seems convinced that a plebicite would not go in it’s favor.

            This issue was almost solved in Musharraf’s time, when it was agreed that both Pakistani and Indian-occupied Kashmir would be given autonomy. However, the 2006 Samjhota Express attacks in India by Hindutva terrorists, killed many Pakistanis and sabotaged chances for peace.

            Given that both Pakistan and India possess more than enough nukes to completely annihilate the Sub-Continent, this talk of war is immature. The Indian political leadership and Ajit Doval openly talk about “making their mind” for nuclear war, they probably think they’ll be safe. Pakistan’s sped up it’s nuclear weapons program and has now pretty-much got enough nukes to cover both major and minor regions. This is solely designed to prevent any “wishful daydreaming” on either side’s part, and ensure that some sanity prevails and both sides solve the core issues between them without arm-twisting.

          • MT

            india have HEU for 2000-2100 nukes.
            Source: armscontrol wonk

            =》
            pak missile are pretty much rudimentary 70era technology. india china russia usa all have hypersonic gliding missile which does zig jag interfacing in non linear 3 d kinematics making them impossible to intercept..

            india tested k4 slbm with range of 3500km from Arihant this week.
            k4 doesn’t even go outside exosphere. it remains at the altitude in range of 50-100 km below karman line

            pak still feeling pride In four decades old cheeni long march 1 shaheen engine.

            its a version better than scud
            The missile parameters are very easy to mimic. indian radars have already gathered enough info from shaheen telemetry data.
            interception of shaheen which doesn’t even have proper MARV capabilities & can barely correct altitude amid post separation of RV making it a poorer missile as comoared to Persian emad missile & north korean rocket.
            Mirv is 2-3 decade outside of reach from pak tech capabilities as Nescom can do nothing more than integration and fine tuning after indigenous suparco missile were shunted in favor of china m11-m18/nescom & khan lab/n korean nodong.

            china have just manged to induct Mirv post 2012.. china wont be gifting such tech to nescom & pak needs to learn basics of rocket propulsion and systems development for 2-3 decades.

            let me remind u that isro ll be launching 22 satellites from single slv.
            keep dreaming and blaming your govt for destroying all local r&d in favor of cheaper chinese procured weapons which have limited your capabilities

  • SP

    Considering that there are 717 million people in India living in poverty and about 85 million in Pakistan, I think both countries need to stop sending ship loads of their wealth to the West in order to get kickbacks for a few which are again shifted to the West and invested in their economy. There is no shortage of talented people in both these countries that need to be provided good paying jobs. It is better to instead spend the sums on improving the lives of the population in each country which would reap dividends in 20 years for both countries in terms of economy and progress. Attempts to create an arms race only benefit the West.

  • Ashi Sidhu

    The report also says india scuttled pak’s plan to get the pod it all depends on whether rafale deal goes through or not

    • jigsaww

      It just might without it too, don’t you think?

  • Heavy Weight Fankaar

    Every time I come here, there’s this MT guy who starts talking about how we’re a poor country and live off US Aid and shit. Tell me something. Do you get paid to do this kind of stuff or is your name a true representation of the current state of your head? i.e Empty.

  • Sami Shahid

    JF-17 is still capable of precision strikes with the help of different bombs….however, long range targeting pods and mach 1.8 engine will make jf-17 a real nightmare for terrorists in uniform and without uniform as well.

Social Media

Facebook
LinkedIn
Twitter

Quwa Daily

Advertisement

Advertisement

Advertisement