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“Link-17” – Pakistan’s homegrown data-link system

05 April 2016

By Bilal Khan

A recent report on the Pakistan Air Force (PAF)’s Combat Commanders School (CCS) by Wajahat S. Khan offered a number of informative details on the inner-workings of the PAF’s flagship training program. CCS is basically an institution devoted to preparing and transitioning highly promising mid-career officers for their first leadership posts in the PAF.

Not only are these officers put through rigorous training and strict testing, but they are also educated to further their understanding of modern air warfare, and are thus pushed to develop the capacity to tailor effective solutions for various tactical obstacles the PAF expects to face in a war.

We will certainly take a deeper look at CCS in the near future, but for this article, we want to draw our readers’ attention towards another interesting gem, one worth discussing in detail.

In the midst of all that activity shown at PAF Mushaf (the home of CCS), there was a monitor displaying a feed, and under that monitor was a label with the term “Link-17” printed onto it. “Link-17” is the PAF’s indigenous data-link system, which we touched upon in one of our pieces about Pakistan’s C4ISR system.

Tactical data-links (TDL) are networks that enable secure and jam-resistant voice and data exchanges between connected assets. Within that framework, TDLs also enable networked participants to view in real-time (or at least near real-time) each other’s sensor feeds, which could come from radars, sonars, electro-optical (EO) systems such as cameras, and others.

TDLs are essential components of a network-centric system, which in turn is designed to enable the right respondents to acquire new information in a timely manner. A practical example would be that of a fighter aircraft picking up an intruding enemy fighter using the radar feed of a friendly airborne early warning and control (AEW&C) aircraft. Thanks to the AEW&C’s feed, the friendly fighter is made aware of a possible threat well in advance, thus enabling the friendly fighter to comfortably adapt and address the threat.

The technical aspects of TDLs and how they are used are covered in additional detail in a previous article, but for this piece, it would be worth looking at why the availability of Link-17 is significant for the PAF, the Army, the Navy, and potentially beyond as well.

Link-17 has given the PAF a network protocol that it can use with a wide range of aerial assets, especially domestically driven programs, such as the JF-17 Thunder. The tactical operational benefits are certainly present. As with any modern TDL, the JF-17 (as well as the Mirage ROSE) can utilize the extended range air surveillance coverage offered by the radars on-board the Erieye and Karakoram Eagle AEW&C platforms, which in turn can open up a number of advantageous tactical scenarios.

For example, the JF-17 can engage in ‘lock-on after-launch’ (LOAL) maneuvers using the SD-10 beyond-visual-range air-to-air missile (BVRAAM). In LOAL, the missile is deployed to a waypoint near an approaching target, and when the BVRAAM is in the acquisition-bracket, its terminal active radar-homing seeker will activate and engage the target. In the case of the JF-17, an Erieye AEW&C could detect a target several hundred kilometers away; the JF-17 could use the feed to deploy the SD-10, and in turn, the SD-10 itself could benefit from course updates by data-link from the JF-17 or potentially even the AEW&C.

This is merely one example among many, but there is a universal point worth considering – i.e. control. With Link-17, the PAF has absolute control over its communications protocol, and in turn, it can exercise that control by freely applying Link-17 to the systems of its choice. Of course, there is an exception – i.e. U.S. origin systems such as the F-16, but beyond that, the world is open to the PAF. In time, the PAF could opt to equip Link-17 onto unmanned aerial vehicles (UAV), additional ISR [intelligence, surveillance, and reconnaissance] assets, and even air-to-air and air-to-surface munitions.

The expertise and work developed for Link-17 should be scalable in the sense that the core fundamentals could be made available to the Army and Navy as well. If not already underway, Pakistan could develop various data-link networks for use on a wide range of complete systems, whether it be aircraft, surface ships, and even land vehicles such as main battle tanks. Although network integration within each of the service arms is on track, the greatest benefit of a network-centric system would be interoperability at the inter-services level. In other words, data-link connectivity between the Army, Navy, and Air Force.

One of the key points conveyed by the PAF during Wajahat S. Khan’s report was the fact that the Army and Air Force are closely working together, especially in regards to counterinsurgency (COIN) operations. In November 2015, the Air Force and Navy conducted a joint-exercise (“Sea Spark”), during which the Karakoram Eagle AEW&C played a role. It is evident that inter-services integration, especially in terms of networking key assets such as AEW&C and surface warships, is an objective, and this is a very significant step for the Pakistan Armed Forces.

Commitment towards inter-services cooperation is not new, but as Pakistan’s past wars clearly illustrate, the idea is not easy to apply in practice. The data-link integration and/or interoperability, the exercises, and real combat experience are all practical steps towards genuine inter-services integration, especially at the tactical level. There are a large number of tactical scenarios where TDLs are vital, such as close air support (CAS) missions, which could involve attack helicopters, tanks and other armoured vehicles from the Army, and fixed-wing combat and ISR aircraft from the Air Force. In such a high-threat and – especially in a state versus state war – high-casualty environment, the last thing one needs on their side is chaos and confusion. However, Link-17 and possibly other protocols will enable the JF-17, Z-10 attack helicopter (hopefully), drones such as the Burraq, and armoured vehicles as well as infantry to maneuver in concert together, ensuring that the right assets are deployed for the right situations at the right time.

Data-link integration will enable the armed forces to execute maneuvers in a manner that uses each service arm’s assets in the most efficient and focused way possible. However, in as far as the Pakistan Armed Forces are concerned, there is still one aspect of the communications strategy that has yet to be addressed – satellite communications (SATCOM). In order to raise the network-centric umbrella of the armed forces to the strategic level, a SATCOM network ought to be explored. When combined with the over-the-horizon (OTH) coverage of SATCOM, Pakistan’s data-link efforts could be used to acquire and fully utilize high-altitude long-endurance (HALE) UAVs, strengthen inter-regional command collaboration, as well as boost tactical networks with an additional jam-resistant and high-bandwidth layer.

Although not a guarantee, Pakistan could potentially use its expertise to develop an exportable data-link system. With an export version of the Link-17, the JF-17 could be marketed as a network-centric multi-role system. Prospective customers already have the option of configuring the JF-17 according to their specific needs, it is an open-platform after all (and will be a very interesting prospect once Block-III comes to fruition). But the availability of Link-17 adds another interesting layer. On the one hand, the customer has the option to use the JF-17 as part of a network-centric environment, just like any other modern military in the world. Many of the benefits described above would be available to the end-user. For the Pakistani defence industry, the work of setting up and maintaining this network would open up another avenue for long-term commercial engagement.

Of course, there is no indication that Pakistan would take the commercial route, at least not yet. In any case, Link-17 is an exciting area, one worth following closely from this point on, especially considering the potential it has in terms of strengthening critical qualitative aspects of the armed forces. Having let the existence of Link-17 slip on numerous occasions, it might worth it for the armed forces to discuss it in greater detail during IDEAS 2016.

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  • by SP
    Posted April 5, 2016 7:21 am 0Likes

    What if an enemy could hack into or intercept the communications? Would it not expose or make your assets vulnerable?

  • by jigsaww
    Posted April 5, 2016 8:46 am 0Likes

    Theoretically it is possible, but then the same applies to the enemy links too. However, built around robust and secretive architecture, this is not at all easy as military grade data links are not shared links like internet. Their underlying technology and communication is not public. They do not broadcast themself. They do not go unencrypted. Likewise, they do not go down like internet and give Carrier class availability.

    Sufficient defenses are in place to make it highly difficult to hack into them. The benefits anyway outweigh the potential vulnerabilities.

    Link 17 being domestic link is more secure on that level i’d say.

  • by SP
    Posted April 5, 2016 9:21 am 0Likes

    It is a known fact that the US has been hacking into military aircrafts encrypted communications of countries like Eygpt, Turkey, Israel, Iran and Syria since at least 1998.

    Since then they would have got better and would also be spying on many other countries. With powerful satellites and super computers no encryption is secure and no communication is secure. It is only a question of days before they can cracked any encryption.

  • by MT
    Posted April 5, 2016 9:41 am 0Likes

    Good insight into this link17 but how could pakistan re-export some series of electronic which are totally chinese in origin

  • by saqrkh
    Posted April 5, 2016 9:48 am 0Likes

    It’s not Chinese, though not 100% indigenous either (especially at the hardware level).

  • by jigsaww
    Posted April 5, 2016 9:54 am 0Likes

    All that granted, but that does not and should not stop any country from progressing and advancing its acquisitions and capabilities. Like i said, the benefits outweigh the potential vulnerabilities. Link-17 is a vital capability PAF has developed and is still better than using NATO or american links.

    On that level, there are no guarantees in anything. You can only keep your capabilities in place and make do with what you have.

    What is your point here?

  • by SP
    Posted April 5, 2016 10:10 am 0Likes

    The point is that in peace time data links are fine but in wartime they could be vulnerable. The systems need to be made as secure as is possible, then Pakistan needs to work on having more satellites and start working on supercomputers unless it wants to rely totally on Chinese satellites and supercomputers.

  • by saqrkh
    Posted April 5, 2016 10:12 am 0Likes

    Hacking into a military grade isn’t an easy feat, tbh.

    For one thing, we are talking about wireless communications that are not only encrypted, but are emitted via frequency hopping, and randomly as well. Moreover, the decryption process is done at the hardware level through the SDR terminal installed on the system. The hardware will only decrypt once it receives the key via a hardwired connection.

  • by jigsaww
    Posted April 5, 2016 10:31 am 0Likes

    They are as secure as much is possible, and then some.
    What is the guarantee that having own satellites, supercomputers will provide fool proof security?

    In military warfare, there are no guarantees.
    There are only measures and checks to make things for opponent as difficult as possible while implementing your strategy.

    These things are building blocks of your overall strategy and therefore need to be coherent with age and time.

  • by MT
    Posted April 5, 2016 10:32 am 0Likes

    Product wise yeah but talking of export potential of such system is hard to reckon.

  • by jigsaww
    Posted April 5, 2016 10:33 am 0Likes

    Read the paragraph carefully.
    It was just his opinion/suggestion. Move on now.

  • by SP
    Posted April 5, 2016 10:37 am 0Likes

    What is to stop a US satellite from picking up the wireless communication, and then sending it to NSA or GCHQ and these people using their their powerful supercomputers to crack the encryption. Once the encryption key is known the communication can be monitored in realtime unless the encryption key is constantly changing. New supercomputers can process vast data per second and will only get much better with each year.

  • by MT
    Posted April 5, 2016 10:39 am 0Likes

    India is integrating coastal, ground, awacs with military satellite located in Geo synchronised orbit esp dedicated for navy, iaf and army with irnss, gagan and other spy satellite as part of integrated space cell.
    The year end launch of GSAT11 will provide 10gbps connection to civilian so 2-3yrs down line indian tejas fighter can stream online music while flying

  • by jigsaww
    Posted April 5, 2016 10:42 am 0Likes

    True. I guess he is glued on the idea that the link may just be hackable despite all measures. However superficial that assessment maybe in some ways, theoretically all such possibilities exist and it would be somewhat incorrect to state that any military datalink is 100% secure and unhackable.

    Or maybe its just murphy’s law screwing with the brains…

    Anything that can happen will happen.

    Nevertheless, i second you. It’s a great addition and secure system in its own.

  • by MT
    Posted April 5, 2016 10:42 am 0Likes

    Even newbie india have at least 5-6 military transponders for eavesdropping on pak military.
    Must be coordinated effort with usa to decrypt china pak communication

  • by SP
    Posted April 5, 2016 10:43 am 0Likes

    Perhaps Pakistan should invest in the ability to knock out Indian satellites from the sky.

  • by MT
    Posted April 5, 2016 10:55 am 0Likes

    Big boss usa and daddy can only knock satellite in low orbit up to 2000km
    Indian satellite be it irnss, bavyt, iaf satellite’s are mostly placed in Geo orbit of 35977 km apogee perigee.
    India keep weather and spy satellite in low orbit
    Pak with rudimentary jet vanes missile tech can’t even reach 5mach & 1000km altitude.

  • by saqrkh
    Posted April 5, 2016 10:55 am 0Likes

    I’m pretty sure you’re just trolling jigsaw at this point Lol

  • by jigsaww
    Posted April 5, 2016 10:55 am 0Likes

    Consider that all Pakistani and chinese transponders and spy satellites are focused on india for intel and spying, 24/7. I can give you this info with first hand knowledge of it. Every sortie of IAF is under paf’s watch at all times. In wartime, Pakistan will implement all EW techniques and tactics on indian comms in coordination with chinese – likewise.

    Good luck with hacking and decryption.

    Basically it’s just your big mouth. Not a ground alarm for PAF.

  • by jigsaww
    Posted April 5, 2016 10:56 am 0Likes

    lol. he loves doing that.

  • by jigsaww
    Posted April 5, 2016 10:58 am 0Likes

    That’s the best use IAF can put Tejas to i suppose, considering the museum artifact it is on verge of becoming.

  • by jigsaww
    Posted April 5, 2016 11:00 am 0Likes

    When the space warfare is a norm, Pakistan will unveil that capability as well. At this point, no nation has announced or ventured formally into that area since satellites are of greater human good as well. It’s enough to have own sats up there or keep taking feeds from chinese sats.

  • by MT
    Posted April 5, 2016 11:02 am 0Likes

    10 gbps stuff from gsat11 is true although for use in rural flung off, island & sea areas.
    Iaf pilots have secured satellite data & Internet communications across India subcontinent but not sure if they are allowed to play music while flying.

  • by jigsaww
    Posted April 5, 2016 11:06 am 0Likes

    I don’t think he is here to discuss all that. He is only here to fill up this page with this trolling. Don’t bother wasting your energies. Take it to defence pk.

  • by jigsaww
    Posted April 5, 2016 11:13 am 0Likes

    So what is the solution or conclusion here?

  • by MT
    Posted April 5, 2016 11:21 am 0Likes

    Well you guys are half century behind.
    China usa and russia have low earth orbit ASAT weapons/kill vehicle.
    U need to have worked on SAM, SLV for 2 decades before ever bringing ASAT into discussion

  • by jigsaww
    Posted April 5, 2016 11:25 am 0Likes

    It’s not an ambition Pakistan has pursued seriously to date and there is no indication it will in near future.

    And no, we don’t want to work on SAM’s like Akash that just might never “start” when needed. We are better without such duds.

  • by jigsaww
    Posted April 5, 2016 11:37 am 0Likes

    10 GPBS. I don’t think he has a faint idea of the bandwidth needed to stream music.

  • by MT
    Posted April 5, 2016 11:47 am 0Likes

    4-5bill $ akash weapons in delivery phase.
    Source:Akash Missile System not been replaced by Israeli QR-SAMs : Parikar

    Israeli and french sam were rejected by IAF in favor of akash.
    Army have always wanted quick strike short range sam but that is totally different procurement ongoing for last decade very different from objectives meted by mrsam akash.

  • by MT
    Posted April 5, 2016 12:00 pm 0Likes

    China china china..They won’t fight your war as they stayed away in 1971.

  • by jigsaww
    Posted April 5, 2016 12:09 pm 0Likes

    Relax it’s just china, not jalapeno that you start burning rightaway.
    USA won’t fight your war either. And the junk indian sats won’t stream indian music even, properly.

    On ground Pakistan does not need anyone else to fight its war. Indian military does not measure up to Pakistan army in training quality, skill, and capability.

    Intel coop will carry on with China. It already is.

  • by jigsaww
    Posted April 5, 2016 12:11 pm 0Likes

    The kind of system Akash is, I think PAF would also like India to acquire more Akash, if you know what i mean. lol.

  • by MT
    Posted April 5, 2016 12:26 pm 0Likes

    Iaf and army Dont buy a safety pin without regressive testing and certification
    If iaf had followed paf lax policy then it would have inducted old tejas ioc which lacked bvr as did the jf block 1 .

    Iaf have such high stringent checks for every weapons they induct.
    Akash had been tested in 15-20 different configuration &; it has decent single shot probability of 88% bit better than hq16 inducted by pak.

  • by MT
    Posted April 5, 2016 12:36 pm 0Likes

    If pak is so advanced & capable then why it begs free f16 doles from usa .

    INDIAN satellite services are used in all DTH communication .
    India hav been fabricating satellites for40 odd yrs far ahead of Turkey:most intelligent sunni nation & much more advanced than south korea a tech power house

    Previous ku band satellite had very high data speed. So this is an improved satellite with launch weight of 5600kg.
    With new GSLV mk3 ; india ll develop capacity to launch its heavy satellite.

    Pak ll be paying 300 mill $:to cheen for making & launching a small 1500-2000kg satellite.

  • by jigsaww
    Posted April 5, 2016 2:36 pm 0Likes

    Pakistan is more capable vis a vis indian army at every level. My basic point.

    F-16s are not free. Don’t lie.
    There is give or take 40% FMF funding, required due to joint ops between pak and US. Don’t burn your arse anymore in jealousy. It is going to stay like that. Deal with it.

  • by jigsaww
    Posted April 5, 2016 2:39 pm 0Likes

    LOL. You mean like they bought (i mean were forced to) Teja, Arjunk, Dhruv and other garbage?

    Regressive testing. LOL

  • by Ashi Sidhu
    Posted April 5, 2016 3:03 pm 0Likes

    i think IAF will bomb such things in first few days of war as pakistan lacks credible air defence

  • by Ashi Sidhu
    Posted April 5, 2016 3:12 pm 0Likes

    i dont know why pakistanis call tejas as teja and
    tejas will kill jf 17 anyday
    arjun outclassed t 90 overall in comparitive trials only the weight is causing logistical issues which will be corrected in 1-2 years
    so dont worry Pakistan’s hands are anyway full with jihadis

  • by Ashi Sidhu
    Posted April 5, 2016 3:16 pm 0Likes

    s 400 is definitely coming Russia has readied draft agreement for supply of s 400 to india search for it but it will take time upto 2019 as currently they are churning out s 400 for themselves

  • by jigsaww
    Posted April 5, 2016 5:03 pm 0Likes

    I don’t know why hindustanis upvote themself.

    These days Pakistan’s hands are also full with hindustani RAW terrorists.

  • by jigsaww
    Posted April 5, 2016 5:24 pm 0Likes

    No. Why go that far when you can knock out the very soldiers to whom the sat feeds are fetched for. You can keep the feeds for ghosts, we’ll just knock out and fry the “veins” of hindustanis using them.

  • by jigsaww
    Posted April 5, 2016 5:29 pm 0Likes

    LOL. oh man, its not a box placed somewhere next to a billboard sign “I am here”.

    It’s a link.

    Do you know what it means?

  • by MT
    Posted April 5, 2016 7:32 pm 0Likes

    india ll have swarm of 1000nirbhay CM with as much as 95-97 % indigenous costing Atleast 2-3times less than cheeni made babur.

    so one attack on indian site ll lead to collapse of all pak military.

  • by jigsaww
    Posted April 5, 2016 7:47 pm 0Likes

    First make the phudoo missile work. Been struggling for last 15 years. Pata nahi chalay ga bi ya nai desi maal.

    There is a simple formula to calculate Bharti desi weapons’ precision and reliability, i.e.

    The percentage of indigenous content in a Desi Bharti weapon is directly proportional to the percentage of failure.

    Hence 97% chance of failure.

  • by MT
    Posted April 5, 2016 7:55 pm 0Likes

    all countries who made their missile take 10yrs

    nirbhay started in 2005. home designed anf built with reduced fuel intake which took5 yrs to master.
    its heavy design & gen ahead of cheeni babur
    the new version ll fix glitch in low altitude control and another two test scheduled with active homing seeker.

    u guys never faced issues as they wer imported in tested conditions

  • by Ashi Sidhu
    Posted April 6, 2016 4:26 am 0Likes

    By using standoff weaponry such as Brahmos to target your radar installations which will make your link 17 blind
    Manpads shot down IAF aircraft coz it was providing close ground support but don’t do that mistake again land version of brahmos has 70 degree steep down capability which means u can’t hide in mountains

  • by jigsaww
    Posted April 6, 2016 6:26 am 0Likes

    I repeat. There is no single point of failure. It’s funny to see bhartis arguing with a granted idea that everything will go in favor of bhartis in a conflict. Funny.

    STOWs will be used from both sides. At present both bharat and pakistan have similar air defence capabilities, more or less and will remain same always (S400s will be countered likewise as well). Pakistan does have an edge in aerial and radar capabilities though.

    You will always make mistakes, only new ones, though for Kargil, I’d personally rate that that as stupidity not a mistake.

  • by jigsaww
    Posted April 6, 2016 6:41 am 0Likes

    We never face issue because our engineers are not hindustanis. Period.

  • by MT
    Posted April 6, 2016 7:23 am 0Likes

    ur engg test ready made product.
    look at you country. ur leaders buy sugar mill machinery from india as it’s more reliable than cheeni maal then u hire 30-40 engineers to operate your plant.

    indian drdo is decades ahead of pak in each & every field.
    for pak integration of cheeeni system is r&d development while india builds everything from scratch

  • by jigsaww
    Posted April 6, 2016 7:32 am 0Likes

    You can curse that corrupt bald pate for all i care. He is a criminal and corrupt. I don’t care what you say about him. He is more likely to be working against Pakistan more than for it, so whatever. That should also explain the 30,40 “engineers” in his sugar mill. You can imagine the quality of that sugar mill if hindustani engineers are working there, LOL, though they just might be thugs or criminals on special spy duties.

  • by MT
    Posted April 6, 2016 9:01 am 0Likes

    The machinery are imported from india & your politicians across party line are making profit from them.
    some of engg are doing dual job for agency & plant maintenance

  • by jigsaww
    Posted April 6, 2016 10:30 am 0Likes

    It’s business for Sharif family. And for the hindustani employees its employment whether it includes sweeping floors, cleaning the sewage, or maintaining the plant. They’re sent on personal requests of hindustani businessmen doing business with sharif family.

    On a general level, Pakistani engineers have way better standards than the levels bhartis agree to work (pretty much for anything).

  • by SP
    Posted April 6, 2016 10:46 am 0Likes

    The Pakistanu Generals arent the brightest of the bunch. They have ruled Pakistan for the longest and are responsible for the state of affairs in Pakistan. 1965, 1971 and the afghan wars of 1979 and 2002 have all taken place during military rule. The Generals have sold Pakistan to the US for personal gain and for kursi for a few years at the expense of the nation. They are the reason why much of Pakistans population is living in poverty.

    So please lets have less of critising people that rule through the ballot boxes.

  • by jigsaww
    Posted April 6, 2016 11:11 am 0Likes

    Ok, this is getting political. I understand some people are die hard fans of PML N. Frankly, it’s not my objective here to discuss but i also do not care to say the truth.
    The reason Pakistan army has ruled the land for large half is because of the inherent incapability and incapacity of politicians. No sir. I will not put my trust in a thug, a criminal who has made a business empire by money laundering, crime, tax evasion and more. You are welcome to follow who you want.
    This is not democracy that you are crying about. It’s political dictatorship. So i’m not taking lessons on that either.

    You have demoracy for 10 years now and these 10 years are the worst of Pakistan’s history in terms of economic demise, loans increase, YoY inflation and increase in instability of country. The ballot box you talk of is most likely a violated one as well.

    I’m not here to educate you or convince you. I m here to say the truth.

    You give this nation a leader worth leading, an army won’t intervene but that won’t happen with this lot.

    Hell it’s a shame to see an F-16 giving “salami” to this president. It’s more than his entire intellectual worth.

  • by SP
    Posted April 6, 2016 11:21 am 0Likes

    This is no about politics but what is best for Pakistan. Democracy needs to take root in the country without military trying to undermine it. This system might be imperfect but it will improve with padsage of time. We cannot keep going around in circles whilst the rest ofvthe world is passing us by.

  • by MT
    Posted April 6, 2016 11:26 am 0Likes

    That’s why pakistani engineersbare found no where in global tech map while indian dominating every minute field.

    pak ranks in bottom 10 countries r&d innovation index.

    india is 50 position above bakistan.

    Pakistan industries seeking indian machineries & consultancy while pak hospitals plead indian doctor to come & train them heart, liver & kidbey surgeries

    pakistani r just poorly madrassa trained low qty professionals who can never match india

  • by Smoking a Tejas
    Posted April 6, 2016 11:34 am 0Likes

    Good for you, do they get cable?

  • by SP
    Posted April 6, 2016 11:41 am 0Likes

    I have welcomed army rule in the past but now realise the folly of it. The Generals dont correct anything and leave the same corrupt system in place which benefits them. All army rule is followed by PPP which sets the country back even further, without army rule PPP would have long disappeared, then the Generals keep waiting for their turn on the merrygoround again. You cannot expect clean people from a corrupt system. You need to stregthen the system to keep people clean.

  • by Smoking a Tejas
    Posted April 6, 2016 11:44 am 0Likes

    Relax, its not passing us by. We’ve still got a ring side seat but need to be a little more focused, pro active and less emotional in our decisions and external interactions. And that’ll come with time and practice. As far as Democracy, its many things to many people but it must ensure equity and opportunity for all otherwise it becomes just as useless as authoritarianism.

  • by jigsaww
    Posted April 6, 2016 11:55 am 0Likes

    You give the solutions then instead of complaining and whining.
    If there is a clean institution in whole country which is largely corruption free and where things take place on merit, it’s not your police, your courts, your municipalities, your hospitals, your PCB, your universities. It is your damn Military. Learn to respect that. It is not the job of your military to carry out flood relief, carry out city policing, clean up karachi, protect the parliament, send ambulances and heavy machiney, provide security for CPEC, build road networks and all. This is your bloody politicians responsibility. As far as i can see, no one is present.

    You are a confused person and the simplest thing i can say to you is, produce a leader worth celebrating sweets for instead of martial law and then talk about military. It is in the genes of military to protect the unity of the country, you can’t take it away from them.

    Don’t put your own incapability on the only capable institution in the country.

  • by jigsaww
    Posted April 6, 2016 11:56 am 0Likes

    Democracy needs to take root. Only that this is not democracy. This is political dictatorship, where only Father, son, brother, daughter, son in law, and friends rule.

    I m not blind and you cannot make me.

  • by jigsaww
    Posted April 6, 2016 12:00 pm 0Likes

    I can see one quality of hindustani engineers and that is that they are pretty ignorant about general knowledge, that is if you are a bharti engineer..i ve lived all my professional life abroad, i know how many domination hindustanis have, dont tell me that. Here, we only use hindustanis for low cost low quality labor for simple tasks that intelligent beings get bored to do. But we make sure to send a spoonfeeder to bhartis. Although you seem more like a truck driver. but whatever. who cares.

  • by SP
    Posted April 6, 2016 12:26 pm 0Likes

    If you give as much resources to any institution then it can be as good as the army. Army is paid to protect the borders and not to rule over us.

    The reason the other institutions are ill equipped for their role is due to the military getting the lions share in the budget, the rest going to debt servicing anything left over is lost by your nationalised organisations with little to nothing left to the government to spend without begginf for loans from IMF.

    I would support army rule if they managed to fix the the hospitals, the police, courts, universitiies or anything else you mentioned but they have failed miserably time and again despite ruling the country directly or indirectly for much of its existence.

    To make matters worse our economy has lost a huge fortune due to the games of our generals and we now have a demographic time bomb on our hands. It is the civillians that have to sort out the mess created by the generals.

  • by SP
    Posted April 6, 2016 12:35 pm 0Likes

    Give it time and the system will improve. By looking for quick fixes we cause much greater damage to ourselves by going around in circles. Instability has kept Pakistan back, we are still paying the price for supporting US intervention in Afghan. After every failurw the military is seeking civilians to bail them out so much for the success of army rule. Soldiers were frightened to wear a uniform during musharraf rule and now they are lions again during civilian rule.

  • by jigsaww
    Posted April 6, 2016 12:49 pm 0Likes

    Let me tell you a secret that this nation has forgotten for some strange reason.

    Systems improve when there is will of honesty and sincerity, not by simply giving it time. Your struggle towards a goal should be upheld on sincerity and honesty. The people you put your trust in are not sincere in first place with this country. You can keep give them a millennium and nothing will change.

    You have no idea at level you have been violated. They are not honest to you. Don’t waste your loyalty on these thugs.

  • by jigsaww
    Posted April 6, 2016 12:57 pm 0Likes

    Resources were there. They are now sitting offshore. Panama leaks is your friend. Do you know how much corruption has taken place in last 10 years in pakistan? Do you know how much loans have been taken and where they went? Are you really this naive or you are faking it? Do you know who shahbaz shareef is? Do you know how sharif family came into politics. please!

    And Seriously who has been filling your heads with this garbage. Do you know how much pakistan spends from its GDP on military?

    I think you are one of those who sit around “tharas” and get their heads filled with garbage fauj talk but have zero understanding of facts and statistics.

    Pakistan has problems to tackle. One of them is the mentality you portray.

    Get this thing in your head. Your military owes nothing to you. They are under no obligation to give their lives for ANY salary.

    They owe you nothing. The only reason they do it is because they’re loyal and sincere to their work. That is what professionals do.

  • by SP
    Posted April 6, 2016 1:46 pm 0Likes

    Panama bank accounts are private wealth. FYI Sharif family were very wealthy even in 70s. Many militarymen and civil servants even have accounts and assets abroad. Many of the have wifes and children abroad and join them after retirement, but you dont see anyone shouting corrupt at them.

    If there is corruption then NAB and ISI should investigate them and hold them to account. You cannot call people corrupt when it suits you and honest when it suits you.

    Let me also tell you that military does not have a monopoly on patriotism. The ultimate defenders of Pakistan are its people. If criticism strengthens Pakistan then I am all for it. The military cannot and should not be a sacred holy cow.

    The national interest is too great and important to be left to shortsighted people with narrow tunnel vision.

  • by SP
    Posted April 6, 2016 1:57 pm 0Likes

    Lets say the generals were sincere and honest when ruling over us, so why did they not correct them system of its flaws. After having failed in the past why do they want more opportunities to rule again.

    Why does the army not use its considerable influence on the government to improve the system, I am all for it.

    Why does the army intelligence not help institutions catch wrong doers, and help stregthen institutions.

    Fact is the the army is a beneficiary of a broken system which suits its interest. They are not interested in fixing it as it would mean end of army rules.

  • by jigsaww
    Posted April 6, 2016 2:42 pm 0Likes

    It’s not the job of military to “replace” a civilian gov. Armies and militaries can never do that. You are totally confused. Armies intervene only when the integrity of a country is put to stake and they come in not to (primarily) work as a replacement for civilian gov, but to put the country back to a position of status quo or where it derailed from. Military can never be a replacement for civilian rule, but only if civilians prove themself capable. This is the reason you see military so headstrong in pakistan because civilians are basically made incapable because of corrupt politicians violating the merit. In pakistan, even army chiefs are appointed by PM. who have given thhat bald pate to appoint chiefs of his choice? why people like shahid latif were bypassed by less capable and junior officers. It is because of your politicians interfering in army. So it’s not like politicians don’t interfere in military, they do it all the time but the effect does not matter because the institution itself is very strong. That is what institution importance is.

    I’m not advocating any one general’s actions. You are hitting on an entire institution, which is wrong. I have problems with many of musharrafäs decisions but he is one man. You are bent on destroying whole institution in your innocence.

    If you are so keen on army doing everything, from policing, issuing visas, catching spies, playing cricket, coaching cricket team, giving foreign policy, then frankly tell the politicians to pack up and leave. Then the law should give the military full authority to demolish democracy from pakistan so there is no bakwas of democracy for people to make excuse about. Otherwise like i said, create one leader capable enough and the military will never intervene, but if you continue producing traitors of the kind of pakistani politicians then the military offsets that at some point when things get too bad. This is how they think.

  • by jigsaww
    Posted April 6, 2016 2:52 pm 0Likes

    LOL. It’s not private wealth. It’s the money gathered by all black means. Just read a bit. It’s peoples money.

    Sharif was a lohar for god sake. his empire has grown 1000 times more. how?

    Maybe ISI should also clean the streets and do traffic police work, right?

    What kind of ppl r u. lol

    listen…i dont have anything to prove to you or convince you with.

    you are free to believe and follow who you want.

    You are responsible for your own actions at the end of day and life. Just try to speak the truth. It will open your eyes in many ways you cannot imagine. But that certainly will not happen if mr. ganj sharif is for you your savior and jesus massiah.

  • by SP
    Posted April 6, 2016 3:11 pm 0Likes

    Lol you make me laugh. Its not the job of military to replace a civilian government unless the govt proves incapable. Its not the job of the military to replace a govt full stop! Who decides if the govt is capable or not? The military? No the people. There are institutions like judiciary and NAB to keep the government in check. The SC has dismissed PMs and can do so again.

    In a democracy the Army is under the control of federal secretary but in Pakistan the Army chief sits with the PM and it seems that the PM is answerable to the COAS and not the public. Under the constitution it is prerogative of the PM to appoint the COAS. If the institution is as strong as you say then it does not matter who the PM appoints as all are of equal abilities to have risen to the rank of Lt. Gen.

    Intelligence organisations world over play an important role in safeguarding the economic well being of their country, so it should be in the domain of say ISI to help stregthen Pakistan economically.

  • by jigsaww
    Posted April 6, 2016 5:10 pm 0Likes

    You didn’t learn anything from what i told you. After all this argument, you’ve thrown back to me the question you started with. You didn’t even notice i’ve given you the answer to that.

    What good is it for me to argue then? Keep laughing.

  • by jigsaww
    Posted April 7, 2016 12:24 pm 0Likes


    Can you cover reports about DAMOCLES POD being considered for JF-17?

    Google: “Pakistan wants air force upgrade for prolonged militant fight”


    “Operationally, the aircraft are working pretty well so we if we had a targeting pod on the JF-17, the burden would be shared,” Arain said.

    He said his visit to Paris was in part aimed at assessing from French officials the prospects of supplying the Thales-made Damocles, a third-generation targeting pod. He said that was Islamabad’s priority for now.

    “We’re looking at the best option. The Damocles is a battle- proven system and the other options are not,” Arain said. “If we do not get the Damocles pod for example, then we will need to look for alternate options that may not be proven.”

  • by Mustafa O
    Posted April 8, 2016 4:18 pm 0Likes

    We dont want anyone to fight our wars. India has been thrashed in air in 65 and 71, they will be in future wars as well.

  • by Mustafa O
    Posted April 8, 2016 4:21 pm 0Likes

    If u are so rich and self sufficient in toilets, why buy c17 through FMS rogram. Why not through a direct contract.
    Yes PAF doesn’t have those resources, but that doesn’t mean not to utulize FMF or other ways of buying weapos to punish indian aggression.
    Being high tech or capable has nothing to do how u buy weapons u blackee modi toady

  • by Mustafa O
    Posted April 8, 2016 4:24 pm 0Likes

    Good for pakistan. Akash should be easier to get rid of than either french or israeli systems. Indian military tech is pathetic that only indians buy

  • by Mustafa O
    Posted April 8, 2016 4:30 pm 0Likes

    Yup indeed nirbhay…… Just like tweety bird and white elphant arjun tank failures and defunct nishant uav. Indian shitty defence articles indeed.

  • by Mustafa O
    Posted April 8, 2016 4:31 pm 0Likes

    No provlem, as far as we something that can made to destroy targets inside india with impunity and precision

  • by Mustafa O
    Posted April 8, 2016 4:33 pm 0Likes

    Cheeni are world leaders in appliances production, u have numerous cheeni appliances at home if u r not operating out of Bombay slum. They have 5 gen fighters. Carrier killers, satellite killers etc etc. What are u really referring to modi toady

  • by Mustafa O
    Posted April 8, 2016 4:38 pm 0Likes

    Plead a Hindu or indian. Go look urself in Mirror again. Lest u want to have job of janitor in middle east

  • by Mustafa O
    Posted April 8, 2016 4:41 pm 0Likes

    Pakistanis are not as much poor as indians are. I mean having 500 million not having toilets and defecating im open
    Dont worry, we are proud of pak military and its generals. U should worry about ur modi and his toadies bend on destroying ur secular stature

  • by MT
    Posted April 8, 2016 10:43 pm 0Likes

    Look kid– Wait for some time—The bird is 1-2 gen ahead of cheeni maal babur-

    Anyone who develops from scratch takes time– while Pak does only painting job of cheeni missiles

  • by MT
    Posted April 8, 2016 10:44 pm 0Likes

    None of Indian purchases were aided by US govt.

    Pak buys them as doles but India pays hard cash!

    So stop comparing apple with oranges

  • by Mustafa O
    Posted April 9, 2016 9:10 am 0Likes

    What is this response….. Are u feeling sleepy

  • by Mustafa O
    Posted April 9, 2016 9:14 am 0Likes

    Yup one to 2 gen ahead……. In failures indeed. When ur toy is ready, probably in a decade time, give me wakeup call then.

  • by MT
    Posted April 10, 2016 10:13 am 0Likes

    It has advanced x band seeker which ll help it track moving ships, local turbofan, redu
    uced fuel intake along with Indian military gps irnss integration.

  • by Mustafa O
    Posted April 10, 2016 3:00 pm 0Likes

    Oh yes , only drdo has all the worldy capabilities and brains to copy and make defence articles. DRDO is synonymous with cheap quality products and long list of failures. So keep ur YET TO BE FIELDED cruise missile to ur self and stop dreaming of comparing it with tomahawks. Pakistan babur is the result of tomohawks as a result of crashes of 7 to 8 in 1998 in Baluchistan. Ur nirbhay is the result of stealing Ukrainian KH missile through espionage. Btw, popeye is not a cruise missile, DH.

  • by MT
    Posted April 10, 2016 6:42 pm 0Likes

    1. Look at publication on Google citations for DRDO articles on thrust vector, dual pulse rocket engine

    2. Pakistan cant make a bicycle rev engineering– I have told you to research on more credible news sources such as jane & they all believe that Babur is cheeni import. IF there were any rev engineering of Tomahawk then it was carried out by china with supplied crashed CM from pakistan

    3. So you have revealed truth about babur whch is ukrainian in origin

    Babur is based on Kh-55SM/Korshun LACM, whose detailed production engineering data packages were bought from Kiev by 2001 which had by then been developed by Ukraine’s Dnipropetrovsk-based Yuzhnoye State Design Bureau. The operation involved Pakistan’s famous A.Q. Khan. In early 2005, flight-tests of a variant of the DH-10A, having a range of 600km and equipped with a fibre-optic gyro coupled to an indigenously developed Digital Scene Matching Area Correlation (DSMAC) for mid-course navigation and terminal-homing system. This missile was later to become the 500km-range Babur, while its 280km-range anti-ship variant, incorporating an active radar seeker with 40km range for anti-ship strike, was designated as the C-602/YJ-62 and offered for sale worldwide since September 2005 by CPMIEC. China has supplied Pakistan’s NESCOM with the jigs, lathes and moulding/machining/milling tooling required for fabricating the LACM’s sub-assemblies.[6] A 1995 Russian document suggested a complete production facility had been transferred to Shanghai, for the development of a nuclear-armed cruise missile. Originally it was thought that this was based on the 300 km-range Raduga Kh-15 (AS-16 ‘Kickback’), but it now appears that it was the Kh-55 that was transferred to China.

  • by Pakistan Defence
    Posted April 11, 2016 7:08 pm 0Likes

    LINK-17 is a mature solution now, its been under wraps for a while. It has the potential to become the standard datalink for Pakistan’s armed forces in the long term.

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