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Pakistan looks to market the JF-17 Thunder to Morocco

By Bilal Khan

Pakistan Aeronautical Complex (PAC) will be attending the 2016 International Marrakesh Air Show, which is scheduled to take place from Wednesday, April 27th.  Having reportedly secured the sale of three JF-17s to the Nigerian Air Force, PAC will be eager to use the International Marrakesh Air Show as a platform to acquire another customer in Africa, potentially the Royal Moroccan Air Force (RMAF).

The JF-17 is a lightweight multi-role fighter principally designed to meet the requirements of the Pakistan Air Force (PAF) – i.e. to phase out antiquated fighter aircraft such as the F-7P as well as to diffuse modern air-to-air and air-to-ground combat capabilities across the entire PAF fighter fleet.

With its emphasis on low-cost acquisition, affordable maintenance, and flexible customization, the JF-17 has been marketed as a potential replacement for MiG-21, F-5 Tiger II, Mirage III/5, F-7 and other legacy fighters in air forces around the world, particularly those belonging to developing countries.

Although one or two orders were secured, PAC has had some difficulty generating leads and converting them into sales. In recent months, controversy erupted when a prospective sale to Sri Lanka was basically shut down, mainly as a result of diplomatic pressure from India. Whether this prospect is revived or not is unclear at best, and no longer possible, at worst. Pursuing other avenues, such as Morocco, could prove to be even more difficult, though not necessarily impossible.

As a general point, arms sales are rarely a purely commercial endeavour. The transfer of weapons is in significant part politically driven, perhaps by the influence exerted by powerful states over weaker ones, or the financial and/or economic benefits afforded by some vendors in comparison to others.

In fact, even Pakistan (a vendor of the JF-17) is not immune to this reality. Between two comparable options, Pakistan will usually be tilted towards the vendor that can offer flexible financing arrangements. Such avenues are rarely given, especially since the seller has to absorb risk by issuing the loan or credit, especially on a frequent and consistent basis. At present, the only country to offer such support to Pakistan is China, which has numerous geo-strategic and political interests to maintain in South Asia.

If this is the case in Pakistan, then one can imagine how it would be in many other developing countries, especially those seeking to build stronger defence ties with the West, particularly the U.S. As a result, the JF-17’s market is a specific kind of market, the kind that – like Pakistan – is unable to readily secure arms from the West, either as a result of tenuous political relationships, or economic inability, or both. While a case could always be made on technical or cost grounds, it is imperative that one remains aware of the political reality, especially in the context of the sale of big-ticket weapons, such as fighter aircraft.

In regards to Morocco, PAC will probably push the JF-17 as a potential replacement for the RMAF’s ageing Mirage F-1 (MF2000), F-5E/F Tiger II and Alpha Jets. But unlike many air forces still using legacy fighters, Morocco issued impressive upgrade programs for its old jets, bringing them on-par in many respects to modern day multi-role fighters. The F-5E/F Tiger II and the Mirage F-1s boast directly comparable (and in some respects superior) on-board electronics suites and air-to-air/air-to-surface munitions inventories as the JF-17 Block-I and Block-II. In the best case scenario, the RMAF could easily come to the conclusion that the JF-17 Block-II does not offer a substantive enough jump over its existing platforms to justify its inclusion.

In other words, the bar to secure Morocco as a customer is quite a ways higher than say Sri Lanka or Nigeria. For PAC, the key would be in emphasizing the value proposition of the forthcoming JF-17 Block-III, especially since it will be equipped with an active-electronically scanned array (AESA) radar, helmet-mounted display and sight (HMD/S) system, a fifth-generation high off-boresight (HOBS) within-visual-range air-to-air missile (WVRAAM), and potentially infrared search and track (IRST).

Granted, the JF-17 Block-III is years away, but given the quality of the RMAF’s Mirage F-1 and Tiger II fleet, it is not in a hurry, and it will be keeping its eye open for advanced Western platforms as well. In this scenario, building a working relationship with Finmeccanica will be key for PAC, especially since it will be prudent for it to offer a variation of the JF-17 Block-III that closely ties with the RMAF’s evident preference for Western equipment. In the interim, a twin-seat JF-17 Block-II could prove to be an attractive option to replace the RMAF’s Alpha Jet Es, especially in the advanced training and close air support role, but the key will be Block-III, especially from the angle of greatly improving the RMAF’s air warfare capabilities.

Besides Morocco, the International Marrakesh Air Show will be a good opportunity for PAC to assert the JF-17’s value proposition to other prospective buyers in Africa. Of the air forces that do operate fighter aircraft, not many fly contemporary platforms with modern day air-to-air and air-to-surface capabilities. The JF-17 can provide those capabilities at an affordable cost, and with relatively little friction in terms of regulatory or political hurdles, at least compared to potential Western options.

That said, PAC cannot take the market for granted; the JF-17 will also be competing against low-cost very lightweight aircraft such as the Mwari, produced by the South African vendor Paramount Group. Some countries, especially those with limited need for credible air warfare capabilities, may be keen on the idea of low-cost turboprop aircraft that could be used for surveillance and light attack. It will be up to PAC to demonstrate the value of investing in a full-fledged fighter platform instead, and why the JF-17 ought to be that fighter.

 

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159 Comments

  • by Ashi Sidhu
    Posted April 25, 2016 5:10 am 0Likes

    So now even morocco has better fighter jets than Pakistan’s “new mig 21”

  • by MT
    Posted April 25, 2016 5:47 am 0Likes

    pak is simply end user
    why ll someone buy aircraft from a country which can’t change basic fuselage design & whose total contribution in aircraft is barely 10%

  • by Syed Adeel Mahmood
    Posted April 25, 2016 5:47 am 0Likes

    Well its a typical expected response. Can you prove that in what respect its related to Mig21? except the super 7 program which was started with mig21 but ended in entirely new specification adn design which is not at all matchable with mig21.

  • by Smoking a Tejas
    Posted April 25, 2016 6:08 am 0Likes

    Yup and I’m just waiting for that shining star of Indian development the Tejas to take off. Why not put that on offer? With a two plane squadron being the new standard of fighter procurement, you’ve got this in the bag.

  • by MT
    Posted April 25, 2016 6:51 am 0Likes

    4 are on assembly and 8 are kmt jigs.
    HAL is spending it’s own money and humane resources.
    it currently makes 12Su30 from local raw materials while 4-6 Sukhoi produced from russian raw materials.
    so there was no gain for Hal to produce many tejas without having achieved FOC” final operation clearance”
    from 2017-18; 8-12 tejas would roll out &; nos ll touch 16 from 2018

    Pac kamra

  • by jigsaww
    Posted April 25, 2016 6:57 am 0Likes

    It actually depends on what morocco is looking for. JF-17 is more than available to be customized for local needs. What is certain is that Morocco won’t be getting spanking new F1s and F5s from open market, so if they are looking to replace their 3rd gen capability with a new 4th gen jet, block 2 will do. If they want to target 4.5th gen capabilities, then block 3 is the answer.

    From the look of it, Morocco’s requirements and budgets avail something in the range of 40-50 million USD, something where block 2/3 will suffice. Otherwise they have used F-16s, Mirages, or 80 million USD block 52s available.

  • by saqrkh
    Posted April 25, 2016 7:29 am 0Likes

    I think the JF-17 Block-III equipped with Selex/Finmeccanica Raven ES/Vixen, SkyWard, BriteCloud, etc would attract Morocco (and Malaysia).

  • by jigsaww
    Posted April 25, 2016 8:24 am 0Likes

    Yes.
    That kind of big names will, provided PAF does get it hands on.
    This Morocco deal still won’t be the breakthrough sale JF-17 needs though.
    What JF-17 needs is a cut trhough sale to Egypt, or Saudia. Distant possibility for now.

  • by ClauDi0
    Posted April 25, 2016 8:32 am 0Likes

    I’m moroccan
    I think we are looking for cheap fighters that can at least avoid the air-defence of the POLISARIO militia provided by previous Libyan regime (SA-6. SA-7…) because those cost us a lot of F1 and F-5A during 70s war.
    For me i will go for JF-17 Block-III it’s sufficient for a ordinary operations in the open desert..Pakistan is a friend for Morocco and it won’t be difficult if rich enemies Spain and Algeria didn’t interfere.

  • by Shershahsuri
    Posted April 25, 2016 11:37 am 0Likes

    Sir, whether RD 33mk will be installed on JFT block 2 or 3?

  • by jigsaww
    Posted April 25, 2016 11:58 am 0Likes

    Hi. Definitely not on block 2. Block 1 and 2 will keep running on current engine but may well be upgraded well into the future provided block 3 comes with RD33MK. Block 3 is the priority now. It’s too early to say at this time if PAF will even make an engine switch but given the general rule that PAF will continue to integrate better and advanced systems in the JF-17, it is likely on block 3 at some point if not from start. They have hinted that they are open to integrating a new engine.
    I think PAF will prefer russian engine over the chinese one as long as they are available and provide technology needs.
    Chinese need few more years with turbofans.

  • by MrKamilovski .
    Posted April 25, 2016 12:09 pm 0Likes

    As a moroccan i have to explain why morocco is intrested in this jet …you must know the geopolitican situation of morocco and it’s neighbors …morocco is in a cease fire situation with a rebel groupe that owns Russian anti aicraft missils that in the time of war it did cost morocco a lot of damage …in the east we have a REALLY REALLY bad relaton with algeria that support the rebel and it have a way sofisticated air force ( MIG 29 sukhoi 25 30 ) and su 34 that they just ordered it…in the north we have a complicated relation with spain thatoccupy 2 major citys of morocco (ceuta and melilia) and they look at us with a speriority complex …morocco have upgrated mirage and f5 and new F16 …what i see is that the moroccan want to buy thiis jet because it is relatively low cost in every aspect ( the cost of the jet , the flying cost , the maintenance cost ) and as a 4th generation jet it should have no probleme to deal with the separatists in the south…in my opinion morocco is going to buy it but not a huge number..morocco lately bought 2 satelite radar and owns sofisticated UAVs (HERON.. SKYEYE) they are not stupid ..so even the block II is sufficient for morocco in my opinion ….

  • by MT
    Posted April 25, 2016 12:18 pm 0Likes

    why ll someone buy aircraft from a country which can’t change basic fuselage design & whose total contribution in aircraft is barely 10%

    pak is just another end user & licensed assembler who needs cheeni help for every trivial work.
    Pakistan contribution in development of blocks 1 to 2 don’t go beyond setting requirements & following up on progress made by cheeni engineers

  • by jigsaww
    Posted April 25, 2016 12:48 pm 0Likes

    If i’m correct, you guys do have block 52s in RMAF. That is one lethal
    plane to cater for migs, but i’m not sure what capabilities do those
    vipers have. I wouldn’t bother with Migs and sukhois with those vipers
    in place if they’re sufficiently gadgeted.

    It seems like morocco
    has a conflict where both western and eastern powers could potentially
    politicize the deal but if the deal goes thru, JF-17s will provide the
    needed capability jump to MRAF.

    Good to hear from you.

    P.S: ignore the hindustani trolls here. they’re too hateful of pakistan to be speaking truth.

  • by middleway1
    Posted April 25, 2016 4:58 pm 0Likes

    The Indians need to stop crowing so much, because they are not operating under the constraints that Pakistan has been under for so many years due to sanctions. Pakistan has done very well under the circumstances, don’t you think? Thank you.

  • by Smoking a Tejas
    Posted April 25, 2016 5:29 pm 0Likes

    So you say, and yes FOC pending for a three decade in development plane speaks wonders. My advice ask the Chinese to make you kits. It’ll be faster, cheaper and as good in quality.

  • by saqrkh
    Posted April 25, 2016 6:31 pm 0Likes

    If the Westernized Block-III ends up being more cost effective than the Gripen NG, I think Morocco could potentially acquire a sizable number (50-75). But yeah, outside of Pakistan, I don’t expect a three digit order.

  • by saqrkh
    Posted April 25, 2016 6:31 pm 0Likes

    Block-III, assuming we succeed in getting RD-33MK or RD-93MA.

  • by jigsaww
    Posted April 25, 2016 6:34 pm 0Likes

    Tejas is the pinnacle of hindustani aviation industry. It’s garbage. The jet has not even attained an IOC on global standards but was forcefully given to enforce hindustani air force to accept it. Even for an air force like hindustani air force, it failed to meet requirements, so i guess we can all figure out what kind of desi garbage it is. If it wasn’t for 90% western parts in it, it wouldn’t even be alive for 3 decades in papers even.

    It’s a project on verge of being scrapped but take it from hindustani media and it is shivering the legs of USAF and lockheed martin. lol

  • by jigsaww
    Posted April 25, 2016 6:47 pm 0Likes

    For morocco yes.
    Egypt will be retiring its F7s and mig21s by 2020. JF-17 block 3 is best suited to replace those 100 jets (and more in local builts).
    PAF just might have its best shot in egypt.

  • by Ashi Sidhu
    Posted April 25, 2016 7:59 pm 0Likes

    Radar
    Tejas >>>jf 17
    Avionics
    Tejas >>>jf 17
    Manoeuverability
    Tejas >>>jf 17
    Engine
    Tejas >>jf 17
    Range
    Tejas>jf 17
    Payload
    Tejas=jf 17

    Tejas uses more carbon composites(Developed by DRDO) than any comparable 4 gen fighter compared to steel/aluminium of jf 17 which makes lot of difference in RCS
    Tejas design is made in India which is the basic parameter for indigenous plane. similar to tejas saab gripen also uses foreign engine and radar
    Jf 17 block 3 is going to come only by 2018 and it’s specs are still not confirmed it could match tejas but tejas mk 2 which incorporates more powerful engine will kill that also it will be ready for testing by 2017 as bigger engine required redesigning
    Don’t live in dream world tejas is no garbage especially when compared to the dreaded jf 17
    it will kill the jf 17 anyday
    Look forward to both jets meeting in the next airshow hoping Pak doesn’t run away from tejas

  • by MT
    Posted April 25, 2016 8:36 pm 0Likes

    its gen ahead of cheeni junk fighter 17.

    Moron IAF has far better quality and quantity of aircraft that madrassa airforce

  • by MT
    Posted April 25, 2016 8:36 pm 0Likes

    block 3 of junk fighter17 is still in design phase.
    simply add 4yrs frol now

  • by MT
    Posted April 25, 2016 8:38 pm 0Likes

    pak received massive 35bill $ military &,civilian doles from usa in last15 yrs which amount to 10 % of total budget of Pakistan

  • by MT
    Posted April 25, 2016 8:40 pm 0Likes

    Rd93 MA still in testing phase & nothing clear about Rd33Mk as its top level engine made for Mig29 buyers.

  • by MT
    Posted April 25, 2016 8:45 pm 0Likes

    30yrs was time to build the aeronautical industry while pak is still living in 1970 era & they cannot make basic parts of junk fighter17

  • by unknown
    Posted April 25, 2016 10:59 pm 0Likes

    we lost about 20 aircraft during 16 years of war ! but now we have anti radiation missile HARM

  • by Smoking a Tejas
    Posted April 25, 2016 10:22 pm 0Likes

    Just a waste of money and talent if you ask me. Your boys need to learn focus and restraint. Everything doesn’t work all the time and nationalist rhetoric just gets in the way. Learn to drop the bad eggs.

  • by Smoking a Tejas
    Posted April 25, 2016 10:26 pm 0Likes

    It may have started out ok but got lost in the bureaucracy and the glitter of national sentiment. For all the portent of developing an industry, you still need to focus your efforts. And at the end of the day use what you’ve developed instead of rejecting it for the next shiny foreign toy. The lab coats, bean counters and fly boys have dropped the ball on tejas.

  • by Smoking a Tejas
    Posted April 25, 2016 10:29 pm 0Likes

    And at least the PAF put it’s money where it’s mouth is. They’re using their product instead of bad mouthing it. Not too mention the incremental advances is how everyone does it. Chest thumpers need not apply.

  • by Javed
    Posted April 25, 2016 11:03 pm 0Likes

    If you look at HAL its performance is pathetic. Most is assembly work from knocked down kits mig21,the crash rate (487 so far) only you will be proud of. If India so great in metallurgy then why outside help is needed in every project. Th truth is India has a habit of putting its hand in every cookie jar but many jars are empty. Compare yourself with China that has put you to shame in every field. And please don’t cut and paste and try to write that make sense.

  • by MT
    Posted April 25, 2016 11:21 pm 0Likes

    oo yes…pak is doing at kamra what hal wad doing in 70’s .
    what an achievement.

  • by MT
    Posted April 25, 2016 11:25 pm 0Likes

    I can feel ur envy.
    u guys issues same sermon on indian missile programme while u r the only country who has most feeble r&D among nation with missile.
    For india; tejas project entire development of 100 labs barely cost 2bill $ in 30 yrs.

    we feel that we learnt more from it than license production of dozens fighter since 1970

  • by Shershahsuri
    Posted April 26, 2016 12:52 am 0Likes

    Thanks sir.

  • by Shershahsuri
    Posted April 26, 2016 2:21 am 0Likes

    Why do you hype the Migs. They did not perform well neither in Gulf War 1991 nor in Balkan nor in the recent Libya crisis. Iraq lost more than 230 aircrafts in Gulf war of which more than 120 escaped to Iran which Iran never returned. Allied forces lost 75 air crafts but almost all by SAMs or anti-aircraft guns. Migs never dared to take off in its own skies either. Iraq had mig 29 in that era which was considered one of the air superiority combat aircraft in that era. but it dare not defend its skies against F-15s, F-16s etc. Please have a look on the history of these three wars.

  • by jigsaww
    Posted April 26, 2016 2:23 am 0Likes

    Hindustan has no competence in building any defence system on its own. R&D is nonexistent. Talk is high. Focus is elsewhere.

    Eventually it will fail or fly with 90% foreign parts and will never be relied upon.

  • by jigsaww
    Posted April 26, 2016 2:25 am 0Likes

    Oh right. It’s gen ahead of JF-17.
    Is that also why it is taking a generation more to being developed? lol.

  • by jigsaww
    Posted April 26, 2016 2:30 am 0Likes

    “Tejas design is made in India which is the basic parameter for indigenous plane.”

    Come on now. lol. You don’t actually mean that do you?

    Well what are you waiting for then. Get 500 of those teja and shoot em all up at PAF.

    Forget the airshow, PAF is Looking forward to having Tejas one on one with JF-17 in an actual battle, that is. IF TEJA IS ALLOWED BY HAF TO CROSS THE BORDER.

  • by jigsaww
    Posted April 26, 2016 2:37 am 0Likes

    Well he is a hindustani. Things like facts, statistics, records do not matter to this breed of humans.
    Try fabrications, fitnah, crafted ego, media hype, and bollywood masala if you want to convince him.

    He is bound to reject everything pro-pakistan and support everything anti pakistan. The boy has too much hate in him.

  • by jigsaww
    Posted April 26, 2016 2:38 am 0Likes

    chal phir rotay rotay naa aain wapis agar Russia nay deal kar dee RD33MK ke. lol. suck on your choosni now.

  • by Shershahsuri
    Posted April 26, 2016 2:45 am 0Likes

    Lol. Sir, they cried so much over just 8 F-16 deal. Begged so much the US not to deliver Pakistan F-16. Now if Russia ignore their requests and protests they will pull their hair like women mourning over dead.

  • by jigsaww
    Posted April 26, 2016 2:55 am 0Likes

    The British gave the true depiction of Hindustanis (more specifically hindus with glimpses of character in hindustani in general now) after dealing with them:

    “Either at your throat or at your feet”.

    Pakistan need to understand this nation will either breath down on your neck or will sit in your feet. There is no balanced and medium approach to dealing with the Hindustanis. This is the only way to respond and co-exist with Hindustanis, either let them sit on your heads or at your feet.

  • by jigsaww
    Posted April 26, 2016 2:59 am 0Likes

    I think that would mean dropping the whole basket. lol.

  • by Ashi Sidhu
    Posted April 26, 2016 6:29 am 0Likes

    india has a booming R&D Industry
    u can loath DRDO but the fact is it is a set of 52 labs all over india and successfully make lot things but india cannot jump to standards of west and russia
    i would advice u to look at china which despite investing billions of dollars in R&D failed to deliver competent engine n avionics for its jets
    lots chinese citizens are getting arrested in US for theft of defense tech for example su bin for f 35 secrets and fui sun for high grade carbon fibre

  • by Ashi Sidhu
    Posted April 26, 2016 6:34 am 0Likes

    if u are literate enough u know design is the most basic for developing
    india do license production of t 90 which has 55% reverse engineered indian content but that does not mean it is indian all the credit goes to designers sukhoi for su 30 mikoyan for migs Lockheed martin for f 22 boeing for fa 18 etc

  • by jigsaww
    Posted April 26, 2016 6:58 am 0Likes

    Dude. Hindustan did not design sh!t in Tejas. I can give you a dozen accounts of comprehensive help sought in design of Tejas from not only LM but dassault, and soviets, until sanctions were slapped on Hindustan. Please keep these fairy tales for your kids. I AM literate enough to know that and say that with surety.

    The only country that has actually been able to successfully reverse engineer defence products is China.

    No one worries about Hindustan, be it reverse engineering or technology transfer. The capability is nill in both areas. What countries worry about is China. And there is a good reason for it.

  • by MT
    Posted April 26, 2016 9:30 am 0Likes

    Keep dreaming. Russians won’t sell Rd33Mk to beggars

  • by MT
    Posted April 26, 2016 9:32 am 0Likes

    Atleast 10000times bettter than

    poor kit assembly at kamra. Those inbred r only good for making 12 babies &Cousin marriage

  • by MT
    Posted April 26, 2016 9:35 am 0Likes

    mig29 had grounded your PAF Super gr8 F16 in kargil war.

    Source:Analyses by Pakistani experts revealed that when the rubber met the road, PAF simply refused to play any part in support of the Pakistan Army, angering the latter,” says the report.

    “While PAF fighters did fly Combat Air Patrols (CAP) during the conflict, they stayed well within Pakistani air space. On occasions, IAF MiG-29s armed with the deadly R-77 BVR air-to-air missiles were able to lock on to PAF F-16s, forcing the latter to disengage. In the absence of a PAF threat, the IAF was able to deliver numerous devastating strikes on intruder positions and supply dumps.”

    The situation changed little during the 2002 border crisis between India and Pakistan. Strategy Page adds: “One Pakistani military expert observed that the PAF’s perceived inability to defend Pakistan’s airspace and even put up a token fight against the IAF was the biggest driver for Pakistani leaders’ warnings that any Indian attack would lead to an immediate nuclear strike by Pakistan. It would be no exaggeration to say that after the Kargil and 2002 experiences, PAF’s psyche took a big beating.”

  • by MT
    Posted April 26, 2016 9:39 am 0Likes

    kit assembly is zero addition to your capabilities.

    u call the assembled product as ur own which has less than 9-10% local component including labour charge for assembly

  • by Mustafa O
    Posted April 26, 2016 10:16 am 0Likes

    Lets turn india into A front line state combating alqaeda and taliban, letvur forcea be deployed to fight a war with thousands of terrorists, with suicide bombers going off every second day. Once u will have internationally investments to nil, growrh in negative, tpurists not returning, then i will ask u the meaning of these petty 15 billion dollars.
    Suckup ur hinduistuc figure of 35 billion.

    now are u bringing tejas to morroco?

  • by Mustafa O
    Posted April 26, 2016 10:18 am 0Likes

    Lest india seduces Morocco with her bollywood stars.. ???

  • by jigsaww
    Posted April 26, 2016 11:04 am 0Likes

    China will still deliver a working engine. Capability and performance gaps exist but they’re pretty much able to put products into actual operations. Same can never be said about Hindustan. Hindustan has one of the worst defence industry in the region, let alone the world. If it wasn’t for Israel, France, Russia, and US coming to hindustan’s rescue, it would be fighting its wars with sticks and stones.

  • by jigsaww
    Posted April 26, 2016 11:10 am 0Likes

    In that case, you’d better give up your hope.

  • by Smoking a Tejas
    Posted April 26, 2016 12:51 pm 0Likes

    Well at least they can put the kits together right. Yours seem to lose a few screws during assembly and then become hanger queens if the pilots lucky. Hope you get a good spare parts deal on new purchases cause I’d hate to be the schmuck flying the plane using bajaj 10 number parts.

  • by Smoking a Tejas
    Posted April 26, 2016 1:03 pm 0Likes

    Doesn’t matter. They fly em unlike yours who hate their own planes and are 2 decades in waiting for the foc. Or do they know something your lab coats and bean counters are in denial over that the product sucks. A fighter pilot deserves better if he’s worth his salt.

  • by kashif sheikh
    Posted April 26, 2016 3:39 pm 0Likes

    you win in 1971 with the help of russia and in kargil with the help of isreal a third class people.poor and hungry people a toiletless country

  • by Shershahsuri
    Posted April 27, 2016 4:51 am 0Likes

    Sir, will change of engine enhance speed JFT block 3 from Mach 1.6?

  • by jigsaww
    Posted April 27, 2016 5:08 am 0Likes

    I think PAF is trying to reduce JF-17 weight by introducing composites in the air frame which will also help with reducing RCS further. It will all depend on the degree of modifications, not just the engine but It was reported that block 3 will aim for Mach 2.0, so it could entirely be possible.

  • by jigsaww
    Posted April 27, 2016 5:18 am 0Likes

    I think the spectacle of kargil war would have been entirely different had PAF come into the war equipped with BVR capable F-16s. The world just might have seen another set of records being made on the hindustani air arm. Dumbwit. It was a purely technical handicap F-16s were flying with, no achievement of hindustani air force in itself. Put an ape in a BVR mig, it would be no different. Actually the only acheivement hindustan had was getting owned by Pakistan army air defence. PAF despite on hadicap did not lose a single jet where as hindustan at least lost 2 migs and 1 helo. Pathetic. Hindustan also sent its same migs after 26/11, which were then picked up BEFORE they took off and locked on before they could ever know.
    Try sending your migs now.

  • by jigsaww
    Posted April 27, 2016 5:27 am 0Likes

    Hindustan did NOT win a single war over Pakistan. PERIOD. It’s mere propaganda to say the least. An 8 times bigger military ends up losing 40% of hindustani occupied kashmir in 1948, ends up losing major land in 65 and runs to tashkent to settle a stalemate, gets completely owned by PAF to pathetic lows, is held by its sackless balls in kargil and ends up having more casualties and jets.
    We do not consider 1971 to be a war since it was never fought on mainland pakistan. It was a conspiracy and hindustan just used it.

    This is not a nation that can ever match up to pakistan on equal basis. EVER. Their entire military strategy revolves around numerically going to war with 8 times bigger military, support from foreign nations, and depending on conspiracies. Their dhoties do not measure up against china, which is why you see them in their holes after taking life time beating in 1962. The bristish said about hindus. They will either sit on your throats or in your feet. That is what defines them.

  • by Shershahsuri
    Posted April 27, 2016 6:18 am 0Likes

    Thanks sir

  • by MT
    Posted April 27, 2016 8:42 am 0Likes

    Thats why Poki madrassa airforce were reluctant to fight war and Ganja sharif ran away pleading to America while 2000 Pak soldierd died of hunger

    say thanks to India who didnt escalate the war to Pak otherwise, you would have lost many 1000’s sqKm land & would wanted you to be punished for that!

    The kargil war also proved Pak as top terrorist army state in asia which continue to be hub of 1000 terror camps targeting afghanistan, pak and iran

  • by MT
    Posted April 27, 2016 8:47 am 0Likes

    Cheen and US supplies weapons to Pak through out the war

    US sent aircraft carrier in bay of bengal to threaten india

  • by MT
    Posted April 27, 2016 8:50 am 0Likes

    India was never involved in kashmir war until Pak had captured about 40-50% of kashmir territory & kind of kashmir signed the accession treaty with India

    Pak was aggressor in 1965 & it lost 3-4 times more land.

    In 1971, Pak had lost 11000 SQKM territory in mainland/west Pakistan
    & it had lost 50% airforce, 65% navy in 2 weeks of war!

  • by MT
    Posted April 27, 2016 8:54 am 0Likes

    India & Pak are working on different scale- India is 6th manufacturing country in world- Pak doesnt list in top 50-

    India have spent 3 decades of R&D to build expertise from scratch.
    Pak doesnt have an aeronautical industry

    India faced delay & numerous problem while learning to do 1st time but next 1 decade will be real transformation of India aerospace

  • by Smoking a Tejas
    Posted April 27, 2016 10:33 am 0Likes

    You can already see it. Three decades and all india can pander is a questionable proof of concept aircraft unacceptable to its own military. Stop justifying the mistakes and the wasted time and resources as a learning curve. The measure of whose success is now subcontracts to third party non indian firms. Hardly a success story.

    If you want to see the future, look closely at the French deal which has stalled again on the final points of tot and logistics. Not the standard for successful negotiations yes? As long as india has I’ll formed and unrealistic expectations from its tot and potential investors, it’ll just be feeding a money pit and led by the nose.

  • by Smoking a Tejas
    Posted April 27, 2016 10:42 am 0Likes

    They might have the means but what is missing is the vision and clarity. The us had the same problem with the f 35 bacause it was designed by suits based on profit margins and growth projections.

  • by Smoking a Tejas
    Posted April 27, 2016 10:50 am 0Likes

    HAL doing since 70 yes. HAL doing a good job of it since 70 debatable. Kamra doing it well enough is an achievement.

  • by jigsaww
    Posted April 27, 2016 11:30 am 0Likes

    I think it is not even a good joke to compare US to Hindustan. There is no R&D focus, academic resource, understanding, or organisational structure present in Hindustan. US spends more than anyone on R&D in the world. Hindustan spends more on importing weaponry than anyone in the world. There is a reason to both.

    A simple proof of this is that despite numerous technology transfers, Hindustan has produced zero products on its own in his entire 70 years of history. Every project undertaken to be so called indigenous has failed. The country remains the largest importer of weaponry and has zero mental capacity to reverse this in next millennium. The only products to have seen marginal success are the ones where a foreign supplier has provided comprehensive assistance or where hindustan has stolen the technology, e-g cirus reactor provided by canada. And this will remain the same with Rafale deal, Scorpion deal, ToT on Aircraft carriers and more.

    You cannot compare F-35 to anything current, except the F22. The problem with F-35 is that there has NEVER been anything like this done before,so the problems were always meant to be there. When the F-16s came out first, it was not the impressive F-16 it is today. There’s a lot of criticism on F-35 but it is going thru refinements. When fully operational, it will outmatch any modern fighter and will change the entire dynamics of modern warfare. No one wants to get into WVR when you can not only have first shot advantage but also be able to guide a swarm of drones and UCAVs to their targets 400 km away, never have to switch on your radar and be able to track your enemy with ways it cannot imagine. Just let it enter service and see some red flags and warfare, it will trump your F-16s, F-15s, F-18s, Rafales, and EFs. In some aspects F-35 is even better than the F22. No plane is perfect, so while people are judging F-35 on conventional metrics of WVR engagements, they are basically wrong because of their wrong choice of metrics. Try talking about BVR and other formats of warfare and F-35 is not the plane you want to go up against. USAF does not operate on principles of WVR warfare anymore when you have 5th gen WVR missiles available on F-35. It will change your game and make 4th gen fighters obsolete.

  • by jigsaww
    Posted April 27, 2016 11:37 am 0Likes

    This is a lie. Keep it to your side of Border. The entire problem of J&K was crafted against Pakistan to give Hindustan illegally state of gurdaspur when it belongs to Pakistan, by black mail of hindustani leaders to J&K Raja, and forcing him to sign the accession ditching the wishes of people when UN and british openly called for vote. It is a slap of shame in the ugly face of hindustan that calls itself largest democracy but actually is largest human rights violator in the world.

    J&K belonged to Pakistan then and it belongs to Pakistan now. There is no amount of lies and fabrications that can change this fact, because on ground J&K is under 1 million boots, curfews, media ban, crimes against civlians, and criminal laws like AFSPA.

    I don’t care who was aggressor in 1965. Every land that belongs to Pakistan pakistan has the right to not only be aggressor but also take it back. So it will remain like this until J&K is united to Pakistan.

  • by jigsaww
    Posted April 27, 2016 11:42 am 0Likes

    Bhai tu lay ja ganjay sharif ko apnay ghar. Har roze ganja ganja karta rehta hay. Please take him and provide him aaloo gosht.

    I ll tell you a secret. Hindustan didnt escalate the war because it simply did not have the balls to do it. hindustan will ALWAYS escalate a war on pakistan and will do everything to damage it as long as it can. Don’t you see yourself? How much hate you have for Pakistan for this to be not false?

    I told someone before. The mentality of hindus and hindustanis for large part now is they will either sit in your feet or on your throat. This is said by someone who ruled the hindus for 200 years. There is never a middle way to settle things with Hindustanis. And as long as Pakistanis dont understand this, they will keep getting backstabbed by hindustan.

  • by jigsaww
    Posted April 27, 2016 11:51 am 0Likes

    Yeah that explains the pathetic level of hindustanis engineers. Learning from failures like Tejas. LOL. Or maybe the entire purpose of learning is how to fail.

  • by Smoking a Tejas
    Posted April 27, 2016 1:47 pm 0Likes

    Point taken but the issue with revolutionary is you don’t know what the yard stick is. The platform itself is questionable as no single design in history has been asked to do what the f 35 will do. The tech is like nothing anyone has seen. If it works it’s a game changer. Otherwise remember those 2 dudes who figured out cold fusion. I don’t either because they’re not even blips in history. This could be the Titanic of aerospace development .

  • by MT
    Posted April 27, 2016 1:59 pm 0Likes

    india hadn’t worked on NY 3rd gen fighter after Hal marut in 60s .
    india lost basically 2@3 decade of technology gap.

    Tejas programme helped india jumo from early 2nd gen to 4th gen

    on the contrary pak kamra can’t make a trainer on their own. Musharak is swiss licensed production.

    so despite all flaws &; delay of various milestone ; tejas provides india with local ecosystems of aeronautical engg.

    u knw nothing but there r atleast 1000 indian pvt companies who ll be making components of tejas while hal work ll be only to integrate subsystem.
    60% of all work is already outsourced to pvt sector while another 20% work ll b allotted next yr.

    Bharat forge fabricating parts for rolls royce, boeing.
    U r totally underestimating rise of indian pvt sector which puts india many decades ahead of pak where kamra only assemble knocked down kits

  • by MT
    Posted April 27, 2016 2:02 pm 0Likes

    rofl.

    indian govt rebutted ur propaganda on alleged raw involvement.
    why ll a raw agent carry a passport while intruding into enemy territory.

    no country including iran ready to accept ur fictional story.

    All we know is that sunni terrorist abducted him from balochistan region of Iran with his handbag which had passport & handed him over to Isi masters

  • by MT
    Posted April 27, 2016 2:07 pm 0Likes

    keep fighting for kashmir & india ll ensure ur country ll remain listed as terrorist sponsoring regime

    afghanistan calls ur taliban pawns as slaves & proxy of terrorist sponsoring pak arny while all other neighbours blame pak for being hub of dozens terrorist camps.

    india ll Continue to fight for illegal occupation of pk occupied kashmir, shia majority gilgit baltiatan which belong to india as it has more muslim than pak

  • by MT
    Posted April 27, 2016 2:17 pm 0Likes

    india drdo and thousands research labs aiming towards indigenous production have led to rise of many pvt sector giants in field of def technology.
    india navy uses more than 70-75% local made system while indian air force is most pathetic force who have facilitated brokers & dalal to make fast buck from imported weapons

    Do realise that indian navy is strongest arm of armed force on global comparative index.
    india is close to brag two orders for its top class kamorta class frgates to Vietnam & Philippines.

    I can see similar transformation in next decade for air power.

    Dassault had to offer 30% offset in rafale deal which ll help indian pvt sector cooperate & grab many small tech from dassault, thales.

    three decade helped india jump from 2nd gen to 4th gen.
    india is now in position that it can make pretty much all 4-+tech with strong r&d funding.

    all u need to see capabilities of india pvt sector & how big they are if compared to pak.

  • by MT
    Posted April 27, 2016 2:51 pm 0Likes

    Sunnni Afghanistan may take Wahabi Pakistan to UN for supporting Taliban

  • by MT
    Posted April 27, 2016 3:09 pm 0Likes

    mig crashed bcoz they wre forced to fly beyond their life line

  • by MT
    Posted April 27, 2016 3:11 pm 0Likes

    a country ranked outside 50 in manufacturing & patent question a country which is top6;in patent filinh , manufacturing gdp by volume.

    if india is zero then pak is negative infinite in any technology u can claim

  • by MT
    Posted April 27, 2016 3:14 pm 0Likes

    india got feeble cirus reactors of 50-100 mw in 60s & it now produces state of art 100 to 700 mw of dozens type pressure heavy water reactors

    its is among top 4 nation that is pioneering in fast breeder technologies.
    india has most advanced thorium cycle r&d among all nations

  • by MT
    Posted April 27, 2016 3:24 pm 0Likes

    Hal produced 1000 russian low quality mig21 which they helped iaf maintain over 4 decades with 3-4 upgrades with last obet being bison.
    Russian mig21 had poor life time of 1000hours while hal kept them running for many times more.
    cheeni mig21 copy could barely fly 100 hours and they have lost 1000 pilot; not known to media

  • by MT
    Posted April 27, 2016 3:34 pm 0Likes

    india hadn’t worked on NY 3rd gen fighter after Hal marut in 60s .
    india lost basically 2@3 decade of technology gap.

    Tejas programme helped india jumo from early 2nd gen to 4th gen

    on the contrary pak kamra can’t make a trainer on their own. Musharak is swiss licensed production.

    so despite all flaws &; delay of various milestone ; tejas provides india with local ecosystems of aeronautical engg.

    u knw nothing but there r atleast 1000 indian pvt companies who ll be making components of tejas while hal work ll be only to integrate subsystem.
    60% of all work is already outsourced to pvt sector while another 20% work ll b allotted next yr.

    Bharat forge fabricating parts for rolls royce, boeing.
    U r totally underestimating rise of indian pvt sector which puts india many decades ahead of pak where kamra only assemble knocked down kits

  • by MT
    Posted April 27, 2016 3:37 pm 0Likes

    tejas is nt a failure now after 130 order book.

    just call it failure of project management & delay

    I don’t see pak making its own fighter indigenously in 4-5 decades.

  • by MT
    Posted April 27, 2016 3:40 pm 0Likes

    india can make aesa tejas faster than cheeni block 3 jf17 which is still under design phase.

    Morocco have good relations with israeli so no harm in selling them tejas mk1 a

  • by MT
    Posted April 27, 2016 3:51 pm 0Likes

    india spend about 10 % military budget on r&d not accounting the money spent by Hal from its pocket.

    india is currently spending 1% of gdp on r&d which is almost nill in pak

  • by MT
    Posted April 27, 2016 3:53 pm 0Likes

    A country ranked outside 50 in manufacturing & ranked 80 in patent have guts to question a country which is top6;in patent filing ,top 6 in manufacturing gdp by volume.

    if india is zero then pak is negative infinite in any technology u can claim

  • by joe
    Posted April 27, 2016 4:37 pm 0Likes

    try to sale to western Sahara you will do business Morocco i don’t think so ,

  • by Smoking a Tejas
    Posted April 27, 2016 10:34 pm 0Likes

    That wasn’t the question. If you’re outsourcing to Elbit and Saab for further DEVELOPMENT, it means the local contractor has failed in his responsibility. And this is just the tejas.

  • by MT
    Posted April 28, 2016 2:30 am 0Likes

    Elbit is supplying radar front end , 4th gen litening pod

    indian local made doppler radar couldn’t achieve the desired capabilities .

    Elbit offered technical help in radar technology if Hal fits their radars.
    anyway the local aesa radar is maturingb well & they r targeting them for mk2.

    saab is only in business of consultation so they r not supplying anything.

  • by jigsaww
    Posted April 28, 2016 4:01 am 0Likes

    LOL. burn.

  • by jigsaww
    Posted April 28, 2016 4:03 am 0Likes

    You can spend 100% of budget on R&D, It will not raise your mental capacities. You just cannot think that way bhai. Nahi ho ga tum say. Chore do.

    Aaag lagao bas aag. Thats what you do best.

  • by jigsaww
    Posted April 28, 2016 4:05 am 0Likes

    please create more of such stepping stones. lol.

  • by jigsaww
    Posted April 28, 2016 4:07 am 0Likes

    Wahabi Pakistan is already taking terrorist Hindustan to UN over its terrorism export to Pakistan.

  • by jigsaww
    Posted April 28, 2016 4:09 am 0Likes

    LOL. how many times will you reply to this comment.
    I’m not getting convinced with this garbage. And i don’t think anyone else is either. But keep trying.

  • by jigsaww
    Posted April 28, 2016 4:13 am 0Likes

    illar billar chillar…what the hell are your writing?
    Try your native language. Don’t rape the english language please.

  • by jigsaww
    Posted April 28, 2016 4:16 am 0Likes

    The tech is already being used on the F-22. F-35 is a scaled down version of F-22 but in some aspects outmatches F-22. 4th gen fighters are certainly not the future and as of now the only country to have understood that is US.
    You got to understand that US defines the technology and capabilities for next gen, everyone else follows with very few exceptions. If F-35 won’t do, something else will come up but it wont be F-16s flying around in a few years any more.
    US does things out of ordinary to achieve and maintain its dominance. They have understood this simple thing. Remain 50 years ahead of your enemy and you can kill it without even going into fight.

  • by MT
    Posted April 28, 2016 4:17 am 0Likes

    business man was abducted by wahabi sunni terrorist who were later handed over to isi.

    india & iran have proofs to expose pak lies .

    how many countries did accept ur propaganda but i like our afgan muslim brother giving u hard slap in Un.
    US is probably going to put all old ordered war machine on hold until pak gets taliban to surrender

  • by MT
    Posted April 28, 2016 4:20 am 0Likes

    We can judge that from patents filed by china india pak in Usa patent office.

    pak filed 80 patents as compared to 3100 of india & 6000 for china.

  • by MT
    Posted April 28, 2016 4:22 am 0Likes

    u got muck on ur face.
    lol what an engineering marvel junk17 is that cheen made the dual seat version for kamra to assemble with cheeni knocked down kits

  • by MT
    Posted April 28, 2016 4:27 am 0Likes

    oo yes

    .I m talking to Oxford educated baki
    who knows nothing about defence.

    well isro finally launched their final gps satellite.

    I can bet that pal can’t achieve such technological marvel in next 4-5 decades

  • by Mustafa O
    Posted April 28, 2016 4:46 am 0Likes

    Yes we clearly have the case of tweety bird and arjun elephant. I will have my grand kids repond to that.

  • by MT
    Posted April 28, 2016 5:02 am 0Likes

    lets hope that junk fighter17 don’t run away from next airshow forfeiting 1 mill$ advance

  • by Smoking a Tejas
    Posted April 28, 2016 8:05 am 0Likes

    I’d question the 5o years ahead moniker a bit. Lockheed’s trajectory of development has been tied more to corporate profits than just cutting edge tech and hard core innovation for this one. The physical design of the F35 is pedestrian at best. And the ability of a third party to hack into new tech development must have been an eye opener for the yanks. To stay ahead also requires the other side guessing what you have in the box. It doesn’t have the same bite if they got the plans before you did.

  • by Smoking a Tejas
    Posted April 28, 2016 8:25 am 0Likes

    What!! all that money and millions of dedicated man hours and you couldn’t get it up? And hasn’t Saab been brought in to work out the mistakes plaguing the Mk1A? What was the the point of the R&D, army of scientists and millions sunk in if they were going to come in anyway?

    Ohhh I see, this is separate to the development of industry and tech capability. After all, it’s a special feeling to see a billion dollar invested in the R&D and manufacture of a wheel that doesn’t roll very well as long as it rolls a little. And you can always bring in international third parties/consultants to smooth it out for millions later. That’s success to be replicated.

  • by MT
    Posted April 28, 2016 8:35 am 0Likes

    cheen developed entire aircraft with Russians consultancy.

    J10 ,j11 had 100 israeli working all the time in 90 to late 2000s

    china continue to hire western consultancy from early design phase to final product release..

    china with 1 decade head start have many swedes russsian consultant working even now

    if u r not convinced then u should Google to find out.

  • by MT
    Posted April 28, 2016 8:40 am 0Likes

    There are 1000 complexities involved in local R%D

    u take help of Western consultancy in few selective areas where u lack competencies while most 990 out of 1000 work is done by your local r$d

  • by jigsaww
    Posted April 28, 2016 9:31 am 0Likes

    Let it speak for itself then.
    It’s a bit too early to reject F-35 as rubbish, as its critics have to some and large extents.

  • by Abdul Rashid
    Posted April 28, 2016 9:57 am 0Likes

    With regard to Indian R&D the Punjabi saying sums it up best, “o din dubba jadh kori chariya kubba”.

  • by jigsaww
    Posted April 28, 2016 10:04 am 0Likes

    lol. wait for his 1 meter response now.

  • by Abdul Rashid
    Posted April 28, 2016 10:16 am 0Likes

    He might not grasp the Punjabi language well enough, I have a mental picture of someone sitting in a tiny, cluttered room in Kerala, sweating like a pig, frustrated, angry, desperate to vent out near 70 years worth of frustration, thinking up ways to spew venom. Anyway, if I get a meter long 2 to 3 part response I will fuel his frustration all the more with my usual measured response to his ilk – NOTHING. Completely ignore and refuse to acknowledge their otherwise pitiful and meaningless existence.

  • by Mustafa O
    Posted April 28, 2016 10:56 am 0Likes

    Why run away from the topic. Another bed time story by ur father.
    Hope u r coming to Morocco, paris and Farnborough. I mean start shipping tejas on a merchant ship now, cause it will take 1. 5 months to reach England

  • by MT
    Posted April 28, 2016 11:01 am 0Likes

    it reached Bahrain in 1 ferry jump from gujarat bhuj to Bahrain.
    tejas has more internal fuel than junk fighter & more energy efficient engine Ge404in20 which gives it more ferry/combat radius than jf17

  • by Mustafa O
    Posted April 28, 2016 11:18 am 0Likes

    Keep ur experts to urself hindu scum. Lets get the facts straight. U HINDU, THERE WAS NO R 77 ADDER ACTIVE MISSILES ON MIG 29 IN 1999. THE STUPID SLOT BACK RADAR WITH A DOPPLER NOTCH OF 180 KNOTS WAS A MISERABLE RADAR TO HAVE ANY BVR ON, LEAST A SEMIACTIVE ONE REASON WHY MIG 29 WERE ABYSMAL PERFORMERS IN ALL THE WARS. THERE WAS NO SYNTHETIC DISPLAY OF RWR ON MIG29. IT WAS A RUDIMENTARY LIGHTING UP OF VARIOUS LIGHTS INDICATING A SPECIFIC TYPE OF THREAT, FROM NO CLEAR QUADRONT. PAF F16S WOULD HAVE LOVED TO HAVE ENGAGED VINTAGE MIG 29 WITH THEIR MUCH BETTER APG 66 V3 RADARS AND MUCH CAPABLE SYNTHETIC DISPLAY DIGITAL RWR.
    SO STOP BLOATING U MADDER CHOD. U KNOW SHIT. ALL WHAT UR SAYING IS THE PRODUCT OF CHEAP CHANNELS LIKE TIMES NOW ETC.

    AND IF UR MEMORY SERVES U WELL, PAF F16S SHORT DOWN A FUCKIN ISRAELI OPERATED searcher uav IN 2002 OVER SHEIKHAPURA AT 3AM IN MORNING NIGHT. A FEAT AND A RECORD BY ANY AIRFORCE.
    UR STUPID MIG 29 RADAR WOULD NEVER DREAM ON PICKING UP such a small rcs target, IT WILL ALREADY BE IN ITS NOTCH FREQUENCY.
    TALKING OF KARGIL, PAF NEVER FLEW ACROOS LOC, BUT TBEY KEPT ON FLYING INSIDE. AS DID UR SO CALLED MACHO IAF, THESE SHITHOLES NEVER CROSSED LOC ONCE THEY DID, THE RESULTS ARE CLEAR WITH SHOOTING DOWN OF TWO MIGS ny pak army stingers. AND NOT TO MENTION TWO FORMATIONS KF MIG 27, EACH OF 4 SHIP WHO ABORTED THEIR MISSION DUE TO THE FEAR OF PRESENCE OF F16, BY MERE SIGHTING OF CONTRAILS WHICH TURNED OUT TO BE OF AN AIRLINE.

    WHAT STORIES ARE TOLD TO U KIDS AT SCHOOL, I AM REALLY SHOCKED.

  • by MT
    Posted April 28, 2016 11:21 am 0Likes

    are baki ex airforce officers Lying?

    Source:Analyses by Pakistani experts revealed that when the rubber met the road, PAF simply refused to play any part in support of the Pakistan Army, angering the latter,” says the report.

    “While PAF fighters did fly Combat Air Patrols (CAP) during the conflict, they stayed well within Pakistani air space. On occasions, IAF MiG-29s armed with the deadly R-77 BVR air-to-air missiles were able to lock on to PAF F-16s, forcing the latter to disengage. In the absence of a PAF threat, the IAF was able to deliver numerous devastating strikes on intruder positions and supply dumps.”

    The situation changed little during the 2002 border crisis between India and Pakistan. Strategy Page adds: “One Pakistani military expert observed that the PAF’s perceived inability to defend Pakistan’s airspace and even put up a token fight against the IAF was the biggest driver for Pakistani leaders’ warnings that any Indian attack would lead to an immediate nuclear strike by Pakistan. It would be no exaggeration to say that after the Kargil and 2002 experiences, PAF’s psyche took a big beating.”

  • by MT
    Posted April 28, 2016 11:22 am 0Likes

    “While PAF fighters did fly Combat Air Patrols (CAP) during the conflict, they stayed well within Pakistani air space. On occasions, IAF MiG-29s armed with the deadly R-77 BVR air-to-air missiles were able to lock on to PAF F-16s, forcing the latter to disengage. In the absence of a PAF threat, the IAF was able to deliver numerous devastating strikes on intruder positions and supply dumps.”

  • by Mustafa O
    Posted April 28, 2016 11:22 am 0Likes

    Now thats a new Revelation. Tejas can hardly hop for 500km. Ur hindu defence experts agree that tejas will never cross border during war. It will meet jf on its own soil. Ur geand pa tweety bird, keep it to ur self

  • by MT
    Posted April 28, 2016 11:31 am 0Likes

    go and read abt Bahrain airshow.
    I understand that u r complete retard who doesn’t understand basics.
    AN aircraft with better engine,bigger fuel tank never give less mileage than junk fighter whose real combat radius is around400km excluding external fuel tank
    Nos r 450-500 for tejas& 550 for f16.

  • by Mustafa O
    Posted April 28, 2016 11:52 am 0Likes

    Cut and paste again. I guess it’s too much knowing how junk is mig 29. And again u hindu, there was no r77 integration with a stupid slot back radar. Dont abuse ur ego any more, lest u have any

  • by Mustafa O
    Posted April 28, 2016 11:55 am 0Likes

    Dont compare tweety grand pa with f16s.
    Its a s mall light weight fighter of mig 21 class fighter, especially in combat radius

  • by Smoking a Tejas
    Posted April 28, 2016 12:02 pm 0Likes

    Not rubbish. I’m more curious as to how the corporate led defence approach will perform as opposed to the military controlled one of old.

  • by MT
    Posted April 28, 2016 12:03 pm 0Likes

    IAF MiG-29s versus PAF F-16s in 1999

    The MiG-29s retained the edge throughout and are credited with chasing away PAF F-16s several times. The MiG-29s had a capability the PAF F-16s did not – BVR weapons with the AA-10 Alamo. And in WVR, they had Helmet Mounted Sights to cue their AA-8 missiles.

    “Chased away PAF MiG-29s”. Quoted by Wing Commander PK Singh, Sq Ldr John, see:Youtube Link to IAF operations in Kargil

    Another famous incident during Kargil was when an IAF MiG-27 strike mission reportedly strayed across the Line of Control or was within range of a patrolling pair of F-16s. The PAF F-16s quickly sought to take advantage and target the MiG-27s but fled when the escorting MiG-29s moved in. A single MiG-29 locked onto both F-16s with its radar, causing the F-16s to break off the intercept

  • by Smoking a Tejas
    Posted April 28, 2016 12:07 pm 0Likes

    You’re just being defensive. 30 plus years and billions invested and the best you can do is its complicated. At least the pakistani’s get their money’s worth from their kits. And needing a foreign firm/ consultant to come and save your star program speaks volumes of where all the money went.

  • by Mustafa O
    Posted April 28, 2016 12:07 pm 0Likes

    Chasing away. Where u shit hole. Did our fighters crossed loc, no. So whats the chasing fantasy. Did ur junk mig29 enter into pak airspace. NO. keep ur stories to urself for jerking off

  • by MT
    Posted April 28, 2016 12:10 pm 0Likes

    junk fighter17 can’t have bigger combat or ferry radius.

    1. rd93 guzzles fuel. its inefficient as compared to Ge404in20
    2. Junk fighter17 have smaller intenal fuel tank

  • by Mustafa O
    Posted April 28, 2016 12:12 pm 0Likes

    Grand pa tweety bird vs mig 21. Thats its worth

  • by MT
    Posted April 28, 2016 12:16 pm 0Likes

    I simply told u to track cheeni programme who are running with Russians engineer

    both india china use similar approach to mature internal r$d.
    cheen have a decade head start otherwise simila skill sets

  • by MT
    Posted April 28, 2016 12:21 pm 0Likes

    That’s why jf17 is categorised in 3rd gen while tejas is in 4th gen

  • by Mustafa O
    Posted April 28, 2016 1:06 pm 0Likes

    By HAL, ofcourse

  • by MT
    Posted April 28, 2016 1:43 pm 0Likes

    refer to chinese site.

  • by jigsaww
    Posted April 28, 2016 2:36 pm 0Likes

    what do you mean?

  • by jigsaww
    Posted April 28, 2016 2:52 pm 0Likes

    any time now. lol.

  • by Smoking a Tejas
    Posted April 28, 2016 2:59 pm 0Likes

    It’s just not clear who’s in charge? The user or the suits handling the project. Ambitious and questionable tech that doesn’t work as advertised. An airframe that’s criticized by all experts worth their salt and a development schedule and price tag that’s never ending. I know it’s all probably high tech but the users better pray it performs as advertised otherwise it’s game over. And in all this the suits pat the generals on their heads and tell them it’ll all be ok. So who’s wagging the dog?

  • by Abdul Rashid
    Posted April 28, 2016 4:49 pm 0Likes

    He is taking his time responding. I guess “CTRL” and “C” are broken on his keyboard with excessive use. This is what happens when you slam the same two buttons on a keyboard in a fit of rage. He just needs to look under the keyboard, he will likely find a label with the words, “Made in China” staring him in the face.

  • by jigsaww
    Posted April 29, 2016 3:39 am 0Likes

    So what are you suggesting? Dropping F-35 program and reinducting the F-16s? Or what?

  • by Smoking a Tejas
    Posted April 29, 2016 10:31 am 0Likes

    Nope just waiting to see if the air force is being given the same Schpeil as the banks and financial agencies did before the 2007 meltdown. They had all the answers too and were too big to fail. A single platform solution for all future missions is a long shot.

  • by jigsaww
    Posted April 29, 2016 11:09 am 0Likes

    I said that earlier. It’s too early to disregard F-35 when it has not even seen operational deployment.

    It won’t fail. Even by its deficiencies it will outmatch any 4.5th gen fighter.

    The critics need time to modify their metrics.

    The F-35 will prevail.

  • by Hindukush
    Posted April 29, 2016 11:34 am 0Likes

    Last time I checked the average IQ of Chinese was 109 while Indians came up at75

  • by MT
    Posted April 29, 2016 11:36 am 0Likes

    That’s why indian do better than cheeni in usa

  • by Anonymous
    Posted April 29, 2016 11:48 am 0Likes

    Why are Indians bad at soccer?cause every time they see a corner they open a store

  • by Smoking a Tejas
    Posted April 29, 2016 12:52 pm 0Likes

    Agreed. However the Chinese have also moved onto 5th generation platforms so this should be interesting.

  • by MT
    Posted April 29, 2016 12:54 pm 0Likes

    soccor is nt popular in india.
    without funds u can do nothing Mr anonymous

  • by Smoking a Tejas
    Posted April 29, 2016 12:55 pm 0Likes

    And it really boils down to vision, focus and resources. The tech you create, cheat or steal.

  • by MT
    Posted April 29, 2016 12:55 pm 0Likes

    Well sunni pak have better iq than india but have literacy of 50% comparable to sub saharan desert

  • by jigsaww
    Posted April 29, 2016 2:55 pm 0Likes

    Chinese 5th gen platform will neither come closer to F-35 in performance nor avionics.
    They are make do and PAF will buy them only because it will probably be the only platform offered, apart from TFX possibly.
    That is the plain truth at the end of the day.
    Let’s not forget that US is THE only country to have been able to deploy a second 5th gen fighter. No other country has a working operational 5th gen fighter and won’t have until 2030. Russia was supposed to have but PAKFA is not doing on expectations. It’s not piece of cake and on that front F-35 has been extremely successful. Just not what 4.5th gen likers want. Its not.

  • by Javed
    Posted April 29, 2016 4:58 pm 0Likes

    Excuses and more excuses. Many nations are still flying mig21 with much better record than India. What do you think Pakistan F-7P are? Improved Mig21 of Chinese origin.

  • by MT
    Posted April 29, 2016 5:40 pm 0Likes

    india is the only nation operating such large size.
    perhaps the only country.

  • by MT
    Posted April 29, 2016 5:54 pm 0Likes

    jf17 is totally Russian mig33 design with russian c++ source code but we still call it cheeni maal.
    india on the contrary took limited consultancy help from France

  • by Smoking a Tejas
    Posted April 30, 2016 12:01 am 0Likes

    Let’s wait and see.

  • by jigsaww
    Posted April 30, 2016 3:27 am 0Likes

    You don’t actually believe it will outmatch F-35? there’s nothing to wait and see. It’s obvious.

  • by Smoking a Tejas
    Posted April 30, 2016 3:36 am 0Likes

    If we go back in history there were a lot of proported game changers that didn’t change things enough. The F 35 ‘ s only asset will be its unprecedented sensor and electronic superiority. It had better work as planned because it’s a mediocre platform by design. Expected to do too much which is technically impossible for a single design to not only do but excel at.

  • by jigsaww
    Posted April 30, 2016 3:41 am 0Likes

    F-35 source code is written in C++ dumbwit. Open source is the future that started 10 years ago and JF-17 is same on that standard with code written by Pakistani and chinese engineers. but of course, how would you know that with that garbage tejas in the works. Possibly written in assembly language. lol.

  • by MT
    Posted April 30, 2016 4:12 am 0Likes

    Keep lying..pak engg r good for nothing

    russia wrote entire mig33 code in c++ whose entire ip was handed over to chinese jf17

  • by jigsaww
    Posted April 30, 2016 6:33 am 0Likes

    why? now that you’re practically given a shut up call…i’m lying?

  • by Zaki Uddin
    Posted May 3, 2016 2:41 pm 0Likes

    Wow great, i see outrageous indians balantly supporting there country and here in pakistan we are devided in parts -.-

  • by Zaki Uddin
    Posted May 3, 2016 2:43 pm 0Likes

    Propaganda, indian propaganda every where…

  • by Mustafa O
    Posted May 4, 2016 1:06 pm 0Likes

    Ssshhhhhhhhh……. Its sizzling hot

  • by Mustafa O
    Posted May 4, 2016 1:08 pm 0Likes

    By hal ofcourse

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