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Dual-seat JF-17B prototype has successful test flight

The dual-seat variant of the JF-17 – the JF-17B – has successfully undertaken its maiden test flight on April 27.

Production of the JF-17B prototype began in April 2016; the Pakistan Air Force (PAF) had hoped to induct the JF-17B by this time. Currently, the JF-17B is entering the testing phase. Aviation journalist Alan Warnes reports (via AirForces Monthly) that three JF-17Bs are under production, two of which will join the PAF.

Besides having a second seat, the JF-17B exhibits several major design changes to the single-seat JF-17. It has a dorsal spine, possibly for fuel (to compensate for the space taken by the rear-seat). The vertical stabilizer has also been modified; as per Alan Warnes, the swept tail houses components for a new three-axis fly-by-wire flight control system. The nose was also enlarged to accommodate an active electronically-scanned array (AESA) radar, which will be a core subsystem of the forthcoming JF-17 Block-III.

The JF-17B was primarily developed to meet the needs of prospective export users, which called for the type for in-flight evaluation and conversion training. Currently, the PAF is undertaking conversion training using simulators. However, the PAF leadership had hinted that the JF-17B could see use as a lead-in-fighter-trainer (LIFT) platform within its own fleet.

With advanced targeting pods and commercially available electronic warfare (EW) jamming pods, the JF-17B could also potentially be deployed as a strike or stand-off EW platform, respectively.

The PAF formally inducted its fifth JF-17 unit – i.e. No. 14 squadron – in February with Block-II aircraft, which include aircraft capable of in-flight refuelling. In March, the PAF announced that it successfully integrated a stand-off weapon system to the JF-17. There are more than 70 JF-17s in service with the PAF, and the PAF is expected to place its order for 50 Block-IIIs in 2017. CAC and Pakistan Aeronautical Complex (PAC) have also secured export orders from Myanmar and Nigeria.

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  • by Qasim57
    Posted April 27, 2017 12:07 am 0Likes

    Wonder if it’s flying with a WS-13 turbofan or our usual Russian RD-93.

    Perhaps with significant fuel capacity increases, we’d see range/endurance go up rather than down. That’s a fundamental limitation of small aircraft that’s very hard to overcome.

    New avionics can add capabilities, but being small, I’d imagine I’d be quite hard to make it stay in a fight longer, or be able to strike further.

  • by John Rue
    Posted April 27, 2017 12:24 am 0Likes

    Last time when PAF was asked abotu WS-13, they flatly refused to consider any other engine at this point and said they are more than happy with Russia engine.

  • by Salman Khan
    Posted April 27, 2017 1:44 am 0Likes

    Oh dear Lord, we have wasted a lot of time and resources on this immature plane. We should have rather invested in the Chinese versions of the Flanker heavy aircraft instead. The plane lacks a lot behind its counterpart Tejas, and even though avionics improvements might increase significantly its capabilities in the Block 3, it’s still very immature and needs a LOT of aerodynamic changes. It’s like buying a car with a faulty and misplaced chassis; not easy it is to fix and amend.

  • by Shariq Shakil
    Posted April 27, 2017 2:12 am 0Likes

    @bilal Please also enlighten us whether AESA radar will be procured from China or any other option is under discussion?

  • by Bilal Khan
    Posted April 27, 2017 2:35 am 0Likes

    Not known, yet.

  • by Nauman Ali
    Posted April 27, 2017 3:05 am 0Likes

    tejas is even not operational yet lol

  • by MT
    Posted April 27, 2017 4:06 am 0Likes

    Yes but its better to have working product than a faulty botched up stuffs
    Tejas is 4th gen. It have composite, HMDS,HOBS, better engine, more agility, litening pods, better radar, bvr capability

  • by Red Phoenix
    Posted April 27, 2017 7:31 am 0Likes

    This one is much better than Tejas. Tejas’ advantage comes from American engine and Israeli radar. Besides, as Pakistan struggles to improve Thunder, aerospace industry gains know-how.

  • by MT
    Posted April 27, 2017 9:46 am 0Likes

    American most reliable Ge404 engine, Elta 2032 radar are way way ahead of Rd93 and Chinese KLJ7 radar

    Even the most naive MK1 have 3rd gen litening pods, Helmet mounted display with cueing capability, HOBS, Python 5(top 3 bvraam in world).

    pak JF17 block 2 doesnt even possess a digital fly by wire. Mechanical/Semi digital FBW make It too stable and non agile rendering it unfit for dog combat

    The only advantage JF17 have over tejas is that there are 70 inducted aircraft while tejas production is not yet matured

  • by Halz
    Posted April 27, 2017 12:06 pm 0Likes

    Yet even with all that, the IAF keeps buying foreign aircraft to fulfill it’s demands. Even the IN does not want the Tejas.

  • by Aaif khan
    Posted April 27, 2017 12:30 pm 0Likes

    Whatever you say, let the tejas become operational only than it will be eligible to compare. The aircraft which is in NOt operational and is in development cannot be even compare with mig21.

  • by Aaif khan
    Posted April 27, 2017 12:37 pm 0Likes

    Since i maintain close relations with Mr. wang Guangya, I manage to get a video here. They uploaded it on my personal request.

  • by Red Phoenix
    Posted April 27, 2017 1:18 pm 0Likes

    Tejas has an unorthodox body design, it has neither stabilizer nor canard to illustrate. Western equipment might give it some advantage, but this will end up with waste of money. JF-17, on the other hand, features an incredible body design employing f-16’s maneuvrability and f-18’s agility. As Pak upgrades the aircraft (it does as seen in this news), jf-17 will gets better and better.

  • by MT
    Posted April 27, 2017 2:54 pm 0Likes

    India is adding 6 tejas from 2017 onwards. There will be 8 from 2018. So there will be 20/25 tejas by 2020 just before the Aesa version is integrated

  • by MT
    Posted April 27, 2017 2:56 pm 0Likes

    IN doest want tejas Mk1/MK1a for carrier purpose. The Ge404IN20 thrust is not sufficient for carriers and navy is betting on Tejas MK2 version which is being developed by Indian navy

    The naval Tejas MK1/MK1A version will incrementally improve into mk2 once Ge414 engine is integrated. As of now it has levcon which helps delta wing recover thrust attentuation

  • by MT
    Posted April 27, 2017 2:58 pm 0Likes

    JF17 cant even carry out decent acrobatic . Its thrust and maneurerability is no way near Tejas MK1

    IF you have doubts then ask your administrator who did write on Tejas Vs JF17 last year

  • by Zill e Hussnain
    Posted April 27, 2017 4:21 pm 0Likes

    now we are talking, can you support your argument with creditable sources that the Israeli radar is better in terms of performance as compare to KLJ-7 V2 of Block II thunder? according to the CAG’s report, tejas engine is “under powered” and plane itself is at least 1,000 kg over weight, Secondly, JF-17 Thunder is using WMD-7, WMD-9 and Aslen Pods which all are third generation and by no means behind any western pod, thirdly JF-17 Thunder’s design allows it to perform better even while only having digital fly by wire on Pitch axis as compare to the old school European delta wing design of tejas which is a copy from Mirage and cannot even fly properly without digital fly by wire, the sharp turns by JF-17 Thunder in air shows of France, China and Qatar show how deadly it is in a dog fight, its rate of turn is better thn tejas and F-16 block 15, let me count the few key areas where an operational JF-17 Thunder is better thn under development IOC tejas 1 EW/Counter Measure suite Indra vs Tarang-1B, complete networking with assets in air and ground, air to air refueling, can carry cruise missile, anti-ship missiles and nuclear pay load, lighter in weight and can easily be up graded and integrated with any weapon system, most of the capabilities of tejas only exit on Wikipedia, lastly India has purchased all state of the art, expensive and battle proven equipment for tejas what is missing thn ? the aircraft its self !

  • by Paul Baggio
    Posted April 27, 2017 7:47 pm 0Likes

    Surely better than 30+ years old Tejas which have yet being inducted in IAF!

  • by Aaif khan
    Posted April 27, 2017 10:03 pm 0Likes

    The moderator is acting like teacher of the primary school here, so this time I try to be more civilized.
    I’ll try to make ‘MT understand in a difrerent manner. since we both are Indian so i have some hidden love for him. Dear MT, it is better to get marry with an average girl at the age of 25 than to wait for 50 years for a complete package because then those assets(Aircrafts) won’t be require. Get the Aircrafts when they are require and keep on developing it. Pakistan needed to retire 190 Aircrafts so they had to go with jf17 and they were very decisive and smart with their actions. It’s not about comparison with Tejas. Jf17 is their rquiremnt which they are fulfilling it very well. And since I have been supporting Pak for sometime I would be a little biased and say jf17 is better and it is because Tejas at this time doesn’t exist.

  • by mak
    Posted April 27, 2017 10:04 pm 0Likes

    Check your facts, Tejas started regular induction since 2016.
    There are 20 Tejas in IAF.

  • by Aaif khan
    Posted April 27, 2017 10:39 pm 0Likes

    I did not see trails of smoke on B. It seems that the engine has been change. Can someone enlighten me here.
    I am waiting for Superior shakeel to add some negative comments. MT has done his job.

  • by Gruham!
    Posted April 28, 2017 1:21 am 0Likes

    Congratulations China!

  • by Hafiz Ilyas
    Posted April 28, 2017 2:27 am 0Likes

    MT> Did you flew the jf17 thunder?
    if not, then you must be quite and talk when you were able to talk about efficiency and operational value of jf-17. we knew, because PAF has a great operational background around the world and this is done and finalized by an air force which is best. many hidden things are in this project which your agencies are seeking, but they will not know until Jf-17 becomes a real fear for any Indian thread in future for Pakistan

  • by Paul Baggio
    Posted April 28, 2017 3:22 am 0Likes

    …are you sure? did it achieve IOC? why Indian Navy flatly rejected its?

  • by Salman Khan
    Posted April 28, 2017 3:31 am 0Likes

    wow, so induction is the comparison basis? why not see it as this, we hurried to start the production because our airforce was more scarce than the Atacama. India took its time to mature the aircraft. The JF barely like a turbofan trainer pulls a 8g maneuver, and the g factor is quite enough to see that no modern fighter has less than 9g. It would have been better if we had invested in Sukhoi based heavy fighters instead which china started to make. And if induction is the basis of all our tamashas and clappings, then why China hasn’t inducted this plane in any significant numbers necessary for a force as large as the PLAAF? Food for thought.

  • by Salman Khan
    Posted April 28, 2017 3:33 am 0Likes

    there was smoke.

  • by MT
    Posted April 28, 2017 3:35 am 0Likes

    There are dozen videos available online

    JF17 is not treated as credible threat by IAF. We are happy to see Pak induct JF17

    it would be toast for IAF and Indian sam in future events
    As long as pak cant research,develop an aircraft; no future JF17 with chinese aided/driven development cant ever match Indian expectations

  • by MT
    Posted April 28, 2017 3:44 am 0Likes

    JF17 isnt potent enough to fight a war. It is too sloppy and fluffy once you fill it up with fuels and ammunition.

    It will have minimal usage during any conflicts. At its best it can only be used in COIN to hit FATA and tribal areas.

    its only show is on papers which is to deter an attack. Since pak cant afford J 10/11 and F16 with US freezing aid; pak had no other option but to marry a 18 yr chinese made toad:)

  • by Red Phoenix
    Posted April 28, 2017 5:45 am 0Likes

    Originally both India and Pakistan were supposed to produce affordable fighter like ka-50. JF-17 achieved that affordability while Tejas couldn’t. Tejas is a smaller fighter with f-18 engine, it’s performance is what it can ever have. On the other hand, jf-17 has room for f-16’s engine. Had Pakistan employed such an engine, it would perform far better than Tejas. What I am trying to say Pakistan can turm jf-17 into f-16V with upgrades but India can never upgrade Tejas significantly. I even doubt if small f-18’s engine would let Tejas have an AESA radar as it requires too much energy. similary, avionics like irst will be burden for that plane as well. JF-17 on the other hand accomodates room for more avionics.

  • by Fact finder
    Posted April 28, 2017 6:42 am 0Likes

    Jf 17 thunder programme is on according to its plan day by day it progress show that it achieving it’s goal

  • by John Rue
    Posted April 28, 2017 9:16 am 0Likes

    PAF needs to start thinking about post S-400 era. After India acquiring S-400 , number of aircrafts dont matter. PAF should save money and go for its equivalent. Ever since Russia has deployed that system in Syria , no Turkish F-16 flies near by.

  • by MT
    Posted April 28, 2017 10:01 am 0Likes

    Ge404 IN20 Is improved version of F18 engine & ELta 2052 radar new variant is very optimized with 700/800 T/R modules which dont need too much power.

    Ge414 is to be fitted in MK2 and it will only require length addition of half meter(you can have access to literature review on tejas MK2 from NAL)
    Jf17 is 3rd + gen aircraft. It lacks composites airframe, fully digital FBW, western avionics, high class PESA radar and reliable engine.

    Infact, jf17 will require whole new redesign of airframe if it ever decide to be called a 4th gen fighter as it is only made of aluminium. Putting composites on full aircraft means another 3/5 yrs of redesign with CFD, finite element analysis process none of which can be done in pakistan

    I would conclude :

    Tejas helped India develop aeronautical industry for 3/4 th gen fighters aided by 100 DRDO labs (avionics, radar, turbofan, flight control) with 100/200 Indian pvt sector companies manufacturing parts for it
    india atleast can make a new variant of Tejas MK2 on its own as it developed its dual seat trainer 5yrs ago for IAF version and 3 yrs ago for naval version. It has levcon on its naval trainer which is suitable for carrier operation

    Pakistan relies on china for entire R&D, development/ For pakistan, JF17 is all about procurement and it doesnt help pak develop R&D capability. so in a hypothetical world if west agrees to share their system with pak, they wont ever dare to share it with chengdu in fear of IPR copy.

    pakistan learns very little from such project development as its more of customer/enduser and it will have to start from scratch for any of the future fighter development

  • by no BUDDY cares
    Posted April 28, 2017 11:36 am 0Likes

    Any foreign buyers for the Tejas aircraft. I believe there are none.

    Besides, this Tejas had been practically stuffed down IAF’s throat, and it’s not gullible!

    IN can’t induct it since the underpowered engines of the navy form doesn’t fit their requirements.

    All this been done to show the sheeple of India how make in India policy is getting traction. False alarm as off the shelf rafales will temporarily fill in the tech gap!

  • by Abid
    Posted April 28, 2017 12:21 pm 0Likes

    What is thrust to weight ratio of B model…. i think it may go well below the desired figure of “1”.

  • by Aman
    Posted April 28, 2017 12:56 pm 0Likes

    Totally agree
    By the way 2 Exams finished I am back!!!!!!!
    waiting for reply !!!!!!!!

  • by Omar
    Posted April 28, 2017 2:52 pm 0Likes

    LOL i gotta say Tejas does sound good in the comments section, feel good assumptions about competence indian establishment in development something that “will be done” or “is being done” for the past few decades is hardly an argument to make, im sure arjun tank had same kind of cult following but 75% ended up being grounded, the only reason tejas project is still dragging along because it gives modi’s political rant some credibility. But hey if india is “learning” more and fulfills the formality of indian being included in the list of countries with indigenous developed fighter jets (whether its usable or not and has been rejected by its own military) then why not keep it in the loop.

  • by Zam
    Posted April 28, 2017 2:54 pm 0Likes

    If its that good than why have indian army rejected it ?

  • by little children
    Posted April 28, 2017 3:14 pm 0Likes

    dear “INDIAN”. how said tejas is not operational???? 4 tejas are already operational in the “Flying Daggers” squadron and the 5th one in soon to be inducted. LCA Tejas got the in-flight refueling Probe test flown on 31st Jan 2017 on KH-2018 (LSP-8) for the first time.

  • by MT
    Posted April 28, 2017 3:35 pm 0Likes

    Arjun tank was never meant to be mass produced. It was preface/prototype to Indian future MTBT with aim of program to develop significant subsystems of tank. The system developed as R&D during arjun helped India use them in indigenizing T90 tanks

    Tejas helped India develop aeronautical industry for 3/4 th gen fighters aided by 100 DRDO labs (avionics, radar, turbofan, flight control) with 100/200 Indian pvt sector companies manufacturing parts for it
    india atleast can make a new variant of Tejas MK2 on its own as it developed its dual seat trainer 5yrs ago for IAF version and 3 yrs ago for naval version. It has levcon on its naval trainer which is suitable for carrier operation

    Pakistan relies on china for entire R&D, development/ For pakistan, JF17 is all about procurement and it doesnt help pak develop R&D capability. so in a hypothetical world if west agrees to share their system with pak, they wont ever dare to share it with chengdu in fear of IPR copy.

    pakistan learns very little from such project development as its more of customer/enduser and it will have to start from scratch for any of the future fighter development

  • by Sami Shahid
    Posted April 28, 2017 6:13 pm 0Likes

    Salman, if you dont have the knowledge then just dont put your comment. JF-17 was developed for counter insurgency and internal security as it is a multi role air craft and not an immature air craft ! Now PAC has developed a dual seat version and will install advanced targeting pods which will make it super sonic. PAC will install HMD & AESA radar on block 3 so that PAF can replace F-16 with JF-17 !

  • by Sami Shahid
    Posted April 28, 2017 6:22 pm 0Likes

    This is awesome and a great achievement by Pakistan and China. Now PAC should install advanced targeting pods and should also select a better supplier of better HMD and AESA radar… BTW maybe PAC should also find a Mach 1.8 engine for at least block 3.

  • by Alex Alexandrewitsch
    Posted April 28, 2017 7:42 pm 0Likes

    Russia should make an mig 21 next gen. Single engine for export, for north korea. To fight fa18

  • by Salman Khan
    Posted April 28, 2017 9:04 pm 0Likes

    I’m every bit a Pakistani, and although I raised my voice here against the mainstream people here, I think they are quite rolled up in the wishful thinking that the fight of a “small country against a large country” ( Z. Ali Bhutto’s words) is a winnable fight or even mutually destructive. Diving into the war scene, it’s nuclear with ballistic missiles launching from each side. Till the very now, we were virtually bare naked to the Indian ballistic and hypersonic cruise missiles. Now, we have a battery system which protects a radius of maximum 50km. Elo ji, that practically means the rest of Pakistan except the important sites are naked in front of nukes, and that the sites are theoretically protected. From India’s developments in increasingly faster hypersonic missiles, and their far far better and layered air defense, with superior systems, it only means the fight they will take it to our homeland, just as it was in all our previous wars. India is a LARGE country, and they can afford a fight for months and months. If we had continued the ’65 war for another week, the weak stalemate would have been broken, if it wasn’t for a political settlement. I really worry about the Pakistani mentality construct which thinks that, a weapon is a weapon, if it’s in our hands, if it’s with the enemy hands, it’s nothing and worthless, because God is not on their side. (Where was God when we lost Bangladesh?) A weapon is a weapon people. A Su-30MKI is a Su-30MKI, and well trained and proven pilot will use it to the full and shoot down many planes and launch Brahmos that would make us curse the day we started this wishful thinking. The Tejas has far superior and stealthy engine, radar cross-section, agility, avionics, etc why? Because India does not lock itself in the ideas of the past, but it’s open to change and adopting modern values, which encourage a proper nourishment of sciences and technology in their universities, instead of the constant mulla, the military general, and the society pushing the poor scientist to figure out and invent everything and make that “jadeed tareen missile” by himself without any help from other universities around the world. if we truly want to defend ourselves properly, we must open our society to change and make an environment that nourishes proper scientific research, which is done for the damn sake of science and science only, and when we will truly fix the poisonous roots of our society and show ourselves better to the world, we will gain acceptance and gratitude. Then as Ataturk said, “Peace in the country, peace in the world” would be truly achieved. Otherwise, the same situation will continue with our people living in the most dark darkness of ignorance and utilisation.

  • by Salman Khan
    Posted April 28, 2017 9:25 pm 0Likes

    Your last point was quite correct. I mean, what did we put into the JF-17 in research and development except for the figures given of 50/50 and 40% development cost? Maybe the disastrous aerodynamic body? Or the whole metallic nature of it which is visible to every radar? A lot of botch plastic surgery will be needed to fix its aerodynamics to support a larger engine, and, well, the radar cross-section fixing will take more surgery.

  • by Salman Khan
    Posted April 28, 2017 9:28 pm 0Likes

    We did not develop sufficiently and learn advantageous technological edge. We, bought the plane. And are now trying to learn it at a painstakingly slow pace. We should have instead invested in better planes like the fulcrums or the flankers.

  • by Headstrong
    Posted April 28, 2017 9:46 pm 0Likes

    Maybe because the Indian Army does not fly fighters?

  • by Aamir
    Posted April 28, 2017 9:51 pm 0Likes

    Here is the video of the test flight of the JF 17B

  • by Aman
    Posted April 28, 2017 9:55 pm 0Likes

    Yes for sake of the North Korea !!!!

  • by Aman
    Posted April 28, 2017 10:06 pm 0Likes

    What reform , what change Bro ?
    You are saying to that we should surrender
    Explain yourself !!!!!!!!!!!

  • by Aman
    Posted April 28, 2017 11:33 pm 0Likes

    I request all of You to read about a Concept called “Sunk Cost Fallacy”.

  • by Aaif khan
    Posted April 28, 2017 11:35 pm 0Likes

    No Not operational yet.
    I don’t like to defend Pakistan so I leave you here

  • by Aman
    Posted April 28, 2017 11:37 pm 0Likes

    Yeah Bro your’e right

  • by Aman
    Posted April 28, 2017 11:45 pm 0Likes

    For counter insurgency and internal security only Attack helicopters are enough.
    There was no need of multi role air craft for counter insurgency and internal security.
    And if it was for counter insurgency and internal security than why we are producing JF-17in such a large quanitity.

    Reality is PAF is now justifying the JF-17 and you too.

  • by Aman
    Posted April 28, 2017 11:50 pm 0Likes

    Why china did not inducted JF-17 then ?

  • by Aaif khan
    Posted April 29, 2017 12:15 am 0Likes

    It seems that Indians are winning here. And senior Pakistani intellectuals don’t want to waste their time.

  • by Aman
    Posted April 29, 2017 12:34 am 0Likes

    May be I don’t Care i am not here to fight
    It is the simple opinion i want give you all –
    “Sunk Cost Fallacy”
    Just read about it then we talk !!!!!

  • by Aman
    Posted April 29, 2017 12:58 am 0Likes

    It’s not possible.

  • by Aman
    Posted April 29, 2017 1:18 am 0Likes

    Sami shahid are you joking are what ?
    Replacing F-16 with JF-17
    You need to think seriously

  • by Aman
    Posted April 29, 2017 1:19 am 0Likes

    I think you are right!!!

  • by Aman
    Posted April 29, 2017 1:33 am 0Likes

    JF-17 is operational aircraft.
    Not a model like Tejas which only performs in rampwalks.

  • by Aman
    Posted April 29, 2017 1:37 am 0Likes

    what foolish mk1 mk2 mk3 mk4 blah blah blah!!!!!!
    Reality is that no country wants to induct Tejas
    Not even you country = yours navy rejected it & you are forcing this into your Airforce
    to show it’s not sunk cost , it’s not worthless

  • by MT
    Posted April 29, 2017 3:00 am 0Likes

    IAF has ordered 110 Tejas MK1 and MK1A

    Navy needs more powerful engine so they have to wait for MK2 which shall have Ge414

  • by MT
    Posted April 29, 2017 3:06 am 0Likes

    most pakistanis on social media are not realist. Have you ever seen Indian boasting about assembled Su30MKI and future rafale over chinese indigenious J10,J11, J16.

    We are realist and we know that chinese are atleast half decade+ ahead of India in aeronautical engineering. This shall account the future transfer of tech from France(engine assistence from sneckma on tejas ( and US

    So without Western help, India will be a decade behind China.

    But pakistanis fans here are well aware that pak hasnt built a single r&D institutions in aerospace so there is nothing special about assembling jf17

    Recent news about JF17 B being tested in china is by no means an achievement for pakistan. Will any India brag about Russian testing their super cruise technology in PakFA/T50

    Most Indian commentators acknowledge the delay with tejas project but it takes decades to build 3/4th gen technology from scratch.

    So irrespective of the delay, fewer orders for tejas; india have managed to create another industry

  • by MT
    Posted April 29, 2017 3:23 am 0Likes

    Both Indians and pakistani are winners here.
    For pakistan, CPEC is win win strategy as it brings capital although with high returns and the money is basically used to import chinese machinery, coal plant, hydro turbines, and services. Chinese EXIM bank doesnt invest a penny in any country who dont agree to buy their machines and labors

    India is capable to produce all such machineries so Indians will nver accept CPEC type of project as a game changer as it sees as extention of Venezuela, lankan and ecuador investment strategy where the host country is deeply indebted to chinese loans and chinese have managed to buy their assets in return of their inability to pay debt

    Now, JF17 B being developed in china is not indicator of pakistani institutions. Pak is just an end user. But pakistani see JF17 as sanction proof aircfaft from procurement point of view

    Indians induct 12/16 Su30MKI yearly which are assembled at HAL so IAf doesnt need to induct a shabby product hence FOC of Tejas is much more tighter than what IAF had for Su30 and Mirag2000. Both these aircraft were unable to fire a BVR missile for 12/16months from induction

  • by Aman
    Posted April 29, 2017 3:28 am 0Likes

    IAF was forced to order Tejas in name to replace old Migs only to justify
    Tejas is not sunk cost material.
    And you too should not tryna justify Tejas.
    No one want it it’s a scrap !!!!!

  • by Jay
    Posted April 29, 2017 3:40 am 0Likes

    boy it does hurt a lot does it not, when you keeping cooking inside helplessly… then you go in denial…

  • by ahmria
    Posted April 29, 2017 4:31 am 0Likes

    All the major components of the Tejas are non Indian. The engine is American and the radar, HOBs and HMDs are Israeli. The JF17 is also BVR capable and unlike the Tejas has actually seen combat and not been found wanting. I hear the Indian Air Force are basing the Tejas as far away as possible from any area where there is a potential for conflict. Tells you everything you need to know about their confidence in this aircraft.

  • by ahmria
    Posted April 29, 2017 4:41 am 0Likes

    8 Tejas in operational use as opposed to over 100 JF17s in active service. No matter what you say MT the major parts of Tejas are not indigenous. India is now also trying to get Rolls Royce to give them engine tech now. The Kaveri engine for Tejas it was useless and when
    It failed it was talked about as a UCAV engine. One think both Tejas naval variant and Arjun have in common are that both are exceedingly over weight

  • by ahmria
    Posted April 29, 2017 4:43 am 0Likes

    Wow a grand total of 5 Tejas. I’m sure that’s got China quaking in her boots.

  • by MT
    Posted April 29, 2017 4:52 am 0Likes

    Major difference is that Indian HAL is developing/Integrating Tejas incrementally with support of local companies, DRDO labs and western subsystem. Tejas IOC/FOC version are in upgrade phase so they are kept near the site of development.

    On the contrary, Its not pakistan Kamra but Chinese Chengdu who are developing your JF17 with russian engine, western avionics and other chinese systems

    Indian pulse dopplar radar couldnt perform more than 60 Km so Israeli offered Elta 2032. Moreover Radar’s back end and processing
    system is Indian and front end comes from Elta. Indian Aesa radar is under development

    HOBS, HMDS, Litening pod 2.0 are israeli which would nver be developed by Indian companies

    Pythn5 and derby too from israel while tejas would be augmented with Astra for cost effective solution.

    Engine is american but safran kaveri engine ,modified engine is to be tested over next 15months which is part of Rafale offset policy which would push india among 7 countries that can develop turbofan

    Gripen too is built from major western components but they are developed/integrated by SAAB sweden so what does pakistan learn from CKD/SKD assembly of JF17 whose entire program is being developed/tested in china

  • by ahmria
    Posted April 29, 2017 4:53 am 0Likes

    Yes because the Russians would really want to sell us their jets in small quantities and risk offending and upsetting their big cash cow India whose insecurities they have milked for decades.

  • by MT
    Posted April 29, 2017 5:00 am 0Likes

    Kaveri after burrner ws not optimal but dry engine is already used to develop UCAV
    Safran is already working to improve kaveri engine as their official press conference/job Req talks about 15/20% effort needed to fix it into 90/95KN engine. They would probably charge it from 4 bill$ Rafale offset program
    Tejas naval variant is lighter than IAF version MK1 and it has more TWR than JF17 but its overweight for carrier purpose

    Arjun tank is exceedingly overweight and unfit for cross country operations in lose soiled terrain

  • by Salman
    Posted April 29, 2017 6:09 am 0Likes

    To quote Interstellar, “No, it’s necessary” 🙂

  • by Abdul Rashid
    Posted April 29, 2017 8:26 am 0Likes

    How are your Turkish language skills coming along, Salman? I have yet to make a start yet but it’ll be soon. Soon!

  • by ahmria
    Posted April 29, 2017 9:04 am 0Likes

    So air to air refuelling,BVR capability, raad cruise missiles and anti ship missiles are just for coin operations?

  • by ahmria
    Posted April 29, 2017 9:13 am 0Likes

    No matter how much TOT offsets are inserted into contracts the facts so far are that Indian companies at the moment do not have the required skillled labour and experience in terms of producing advanced jet engines. Defence companies have to be at a certain skill and capability level to absorb these TOT to begin with which they are not. Even the American General Electric engines for Tejas are beyond the current capabilities of India. China is still learning how to build jet engines that have the necessary power and reliability and they are throwing large sums of money at it and also stealing engine tech
    from the Russians as well as Americans.

  • by Wasay Ahmed
    Posted April 29, 2017 11:58 am 0Likes

    Bilal what gives? Even Propakistani had a longer article on this topic then Quwa. Please give us more juicy details.

  • by MT
    Posted April 29, 2017 3:04 pm 0Likes

    GE had never offered any sharing of tech with india. India did manage to build 80 KN Kaveri variant K9 with after burner so safran kaveri variant is well with in reach of indian capability with DRDO working on turbofan for atleast more than 3 decade

    China have spent 30 bill$ on turbofan engine as compared to 2 bill$ spent by India. But Safran Rafale offset will push india into tier 2 countries next to US.Russia,France,UK in league of china

  • by MT
    Posted April 29, 2017 3:08 pm 0Likes

    air refueling yes but S D BVR with 50Km is only tested.

    There is no mention/literature review about raad and anti ship missile integration with jf17

    Raad is only integrated with Mirage. That cruise missile was developed by south africa and they has only agreed ot help it integrate with Mirage

  • by Aaif khan
    Posted April 29, 2017 6:11 pm 0Likes

    I am now too lazy to learn about these and my mind is not capable enough to abosrb these high end term. Not intellectuals like you. I am basically a troller on Internet.
    I could have defended jf17 better than other Pakistanis here. But not wanting to waste time.
    Anyway, thankyou. We’ll see each other if something interesting comes up that i feel worth to to be defended and discuss

  • by Aaif khan
    Posted April 29, 2017 6:12 pm 0Likes

    Russia did not intentionally shot down those tomhawk.

  • by Stan
    Posted April 29, 2017 6:14 pm 0Likes

    You mean throwing good money after bad …..sometimes you have nothing to loose

  • by Aaif khan
    Posted April 29, 2017 6:18 pm 0Likes

    You scored good point for Pakistan. Yes. I am a referee here.

  • by Aaif khan
    Posted April 29, 2017 6:39 pm 0Likes

    Secularism= rejecting the sovereignty of God.
    Islam and Akhirah should be the Goal of Muslims and Not this dunya. Trials and tribulations as promised will come and we have to face it.

    Islam calls for big bang theory but FYI those theory of evolution are just theory of mad man and they have never been authenticated by the science itself.

    Anyway, we have a lot of people like you. You are not alone.

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