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Pakistan is engaging Russia for helicopters, tanks, and SAMs
October 18, 2017
Mi-28NE-Night-Hunter
Mi-28NE "Night Hunter" - Photo credit: Russian Helicopters

Pakistan is engaging Russia for helicopters, tanks, and SAMs

 

While attending the fifth Moscow Conference on International Security, Khawaja Muhammad Asif – Pakistan’s Minister of Defence – told Sputnik News that Pakistan was “in touch with Russia on different types of weapons such as helicopters … air defense system and advanced tanks.”

This was the first official acknowledgment from Pakistan’s end that efforts were being made to acquire big-ticket defence items from Russia. Although Khawaja Asif did not offer specifics into the systems being sought, leading media outlets – such as IHS Jane’s – reported that Pakistan was seeking the Sukhoi Su-35, the Mil Mi-28NE, and RD-33MK turbofans for the JF-17. Seeing Asif add tanks and air defence equipment into the mix indicates that Pakistan is looking to procure a wide range of equipment, not just aircraft.

While it is easy to analyze how the acquisition of certain equipment (such as the Su-35) could benefit the Pakistani armed forces, it is important to recognize that Defence Minister Asif’s statements clearly indicate that Pakistan’s defence ties with Russia are still in their early stages. Much less negotiating the sale of specific weapons, it seems Russia and Pakistan are at the basic stage of ascertaining exactly what could be on the table between the two countries.

There is no denying that India is a massive and influential customer of Russia’s equipment, but it seems Russia is willing to gradually engage Pakistan, so as to secure what may be (at least one day) a lucrative customer in its own right. That said, India’s current weight (which might dilute in the coming years as it pivots towards Western equipment and its own domestic defence industry) is a real influence, and that could limit Pakistan’s short and medium-term options in Russia.

For now, the ‘table’ seems to gravitate towards equipment Russia believes it can sell on the grounds of supporting Pakistan’s counterinsurgency (COIN) and counterterrorism efforts. If serious hardware talks are underway, they will likely focus on equipment such as helicopters and armoured vehicles – i.e. goods that Russia and Pakistan can cover as necessities for COIN. In fact, this is beneficial for Pakistan as well because such items are generally more affordable than high-powered flagship goods such as the Su-35. Acquiring them could involve less expense and less risk, especially if relations go south very quickly.

Relatively small purchases will also help Pakistan acclimatize itself with Russia’s defence export processes, and it could enable Russia to normalize its transactions with Pakistan such that they become a regular feature. In time, these transactions can build upon one another, and perhaps one day, lead to Pakistan’s purchase of comparatively expensive and high-profile equipment.

Weapons on the Table

If we had to guess, it is possible that Pakistan is actively pursuing the Mil Mi-28NE Night Hunter dedicated attack helicopter from Russia. In fact, IHS Jane’s apparently learned from a Pakistani diplomatic source that the Pakistan Army was particularly interested in the dual-pilot variant (i.e. enables both pilots in the aircraft to fully operate it). The Army may be interested in utilizing the Mi-28NE (and its heavy armour and solid countermeasures suite) to help build out its general close air support (CAS) capabilities, particularly on the Eastern Front. It is a design currently under production (with increasing traction on the market), giving Pakistan the latitude to acquire them in incremental batches over an extended period of time.

In terms of air defence systems, while it would be ideal to see Pakistan pursue long-range systems such as the S-400, we should season our expectations with salt. At best, Russia probably has short and medium-range surface-to-air missile (SAM) systems on the table. Given that Pakistan already has two medium-range SAM systems in service or in the pipeline (i.e. Spada 2000 and LY-80), it seems Pakistan would be interested in a mobile short-range air defence (SHORAD) system.

In fact, even a SHORAD SAM would be an interesting purchase considering that the Pakistan Army inducted Chinese FM-90 systems not too long ago. In any case, a highly effective mobile SHORAD system capable of engaging up to 15-20km would be beneficial, especially for defending moving assets (such as an armoured formation) and temporary deployments (e.g. forward operating bases). These systems could defend against cruise missiles and low-flying aircraft.

The Pantsir-S2 could be something the Pakistan Army (and/or Air Force) is looking at to fill that need. The Pantsir-S2 is a recently deployed system that utilizes both short-range SAM (capable of reaching 20km) as well as very short-range 30mm anti-air guns (with a range of 200-4,000 metres and altitude of zero to 3,000 metres). Paired with a passive electronically-scanned array (PESA) radar, it is a mobile system that could move using tracked as well as wheeled vehicles. Another Russian system, the Tor-M2, could also be an option. The Tor-M2 is also an integrated solution, but its missile has a range of 12km.

It is worth noting that there are no other available heavyweight attack helicopters on the market besides the Mil Mi-28NE and AH-64D/E; in other words, if Pakistan wants a heavyweight attack helicopter, its options are quite limited. This is not the case with SHORAD systems. Besides the Pantsir-S2, Pakistan could consider the Denel Dynamics Umkhonto-IR (South Africa), the Roketsan Hisar-A (Turkey), and even potentially the Chinese HQ-17 (a local variation of the Russian Tor-M1).

As for tanks, this is unclear. While the T-90-series is an excellent platform, it is unclear what it would add on top of the Pakistan Army’s existing catalogue of options, not least a highly improved al-Khalid (i.e. al-Khalid-2) or a variant of the Chinese VT-4. One might be tempted to suggest that the Pakistan Army is interested in the forthcoming T-14 Armata (Asif did say “advanced tanks” after all), but this is speculation.

Manage Expectations

In general, it is important to understand that Pakistan’s initial forays into Russian hardware will not involve expensive or high-profile equipment. For example, Asif was remarkably specific in his language; while he detailed helicopters and tanks, he put the PAF’s relevance to ‘exploring possibilities.’ In other words, even if the PAF was interested in the Su-35 or MiG-35, it would be some years – in the best case scenario – before this interest materializes into concrete talks. At present, the PAF will likely channel its efforts at acquiring the RD-33MK (or RD-33MK-based) turbofan for the JF-17 (alongside full maintenance facilities).

For the Russians, it does not make sense to quickly jump in with Pakistan. It is likely Moscow is looking to push things forward gradually, perhaps build a realistic market within Pakistan in the short-term, and then see if Pakistan’s long-term economic and geo-strategic fortunes shift.

  • jigsaww

    I think Mi-28 we can see coming in numbers around 15 to start with. PA really wants to acquire this gunship and use it for spearhead formations together with AH1z, supported by Z-10s, AH1F, and Mi35s. Mi-28 acquisition is crucial to offset the Apache acquisition by Hindustan to good extent. I’d we happy to see Pakistan filling the gaps with SHORAD but eventually acquisition of LRSAM will be must, which most likely will be the HQ9 or an upgraded version. It’s induction should be around the corner if and when S-400 is signed by Hindustan.

    There’s certainly room for growth in Pak-Russia ties. Small pilot acquisitions is the key to start with. All this is good but what Pakistan should look forward to here is engaging Russia on strategic interests at the end of the day, if it wants to get something more out of this renewed ties with Russia. Russia should be made strategic partner in CPEC too.

    • rtnguy

      S400 deal is done and dusted. India will purchase dozen systems

      • jigsaww

        Not officially but if so, good for you.
        Expect similar acquisitions by Pakistan pretty soon with or without public announcements.

        • rtnguy

          Well both sides have agreed in principal. However chinese are still pressurizing Russians not to sell. However if russia refuses to sell, it looses all future contracts and it will be final nail in coffin of russian defence industry, so both sides will agree albeit India may not get 406NE missile with 400km range. That said 200km range is good enough for us to destroy most of pakistan’s ghaznavi, babar /raad missiles before they reach their targets. For shaheen series, we will soon have our own BMD system. And what will pakistan acquire in response?

          • MT

            India is biggest customer of Russia.- So russians would be fool to lose Indian market.

            India will get 406NE & Russians dont care a damn about cheenni pressure.

            Western sanction have turned Russia as second fiddle to China while Russia loves to see India containing china.

            In actuality both russia and India share perspective of changing world order.
            Russia dont want to see another superpower china

          • Shershahsuri

            If India tilts towards western defense industry like increasing deals with the US and France, then Russia would not hesitate to promote robust strategic ties with China and Pakistan.

          • rtnguy

            Which is why india is balancing its purchases to satisfy everyone.China on the other hand has more or less developed a fully indigenous defence sector and pakistan is a begggar with no cash. Chinese will only extend handouts to pak to purchase chinese weapons not russian.

          • jigsaww

            Today a hindustani have the guts to speak of cash where it’s entire history is marred by slavery, slums, begging, being largest beggar and recipient of USAID, and forced to sell own organs to earn a livelihood. Symptom of a low self esteem nation.
            Don’t make me take you to your reality.
            Let Pakistan come out of the WoT. Hindustan’s little dreams will be shattered.

          • rtnguy

            Lol everyone can become rich or poor depending on circumstances but u have to be really brainless like pakis who are stuck with their mard e momin army which sucks it’s own country dry to be permanently in beggary. This is also true for rest of Muslim world ruled by military which bones their countries dry. Do u know pakis why we have cash and u don’t…..cse we are smarter than u and we use our brains to earn money while u while away ur brains dreaming about ghazwa e hind when in final analysis it will be ghazwa e pak

          • jigsaww

            Smarter. LOL. You are as smart as morons can become. You don’t give yourself that trophy.
            The money you refer to is what is gathered thru showing the west and world crippled and ugly faces of hindustani slums and dalits and then getting aid on that and by fabricating the GDP figures. I give you that, you hindustanis are smart here.
            Even with its current financial situation the mard e momin army is able to give dhoti shivers to a hindu army that likes to call its very inabmitious soldeirs “shaheed”, a term taken from the religion and people you hate the most. That is how pathetic you people are. And that is how smart you are.
            Ghazwa hind or no ghzwa hind. What is reality is that the narrative installed in an everyday hindustani like you is “teach pakistan a lesson” , “taken revenge of this and that”, and that is what you morons live for on daily basis to wage another war on pakistan.

            Daal khanay ke aukaat nahi lekin pakistan ka naam lay kar jau marzi karva lo is jahil kaum say.

          • rtnguy

            Ooh why don’t u read about facts. Pakistan received more aid as % of GDP than India. Even ur electricity bills of kamra factory are paid by China. This year India received more FDI than China. As for teach Pak a lesson, nobody gives rat shit to u paks it’s ur actors , musicians who beg to come to our country but we have a problem with ur terrorist army which launches sneak terror attacks all over the world, especially India and then hides behind nuclear weapons and China. If not for that we would be hanging ur generals from lamposts of pindi

          • jigsaww

            Go get your own facts straight before lecturing me. I know what i speak and i’m sure i’m better informed than an average hindustani.

            Stop begging pakistani actors and actresses to come to hindustan and they will stop going there. First you line up and beg one by one because of the inherent ugliness and then you complain. Put up or shut up.

            Now that’s something. A terrorist lecturing and complaining about terrorism. Your opinions are garbage. Pakistan’s accusations are FACTS acknowledged by hindustani defence minister, NSA and terrorist criminal PM in office about exporting terrorism into pakistan. As if the serving RAW terrorist catching wasn’t enough, now we have to listen to this garbage by an average hindustani. The fact is hindustani army is a coward and world renowned criminal and terrorist army, as aknowledged by Amnesty international and UN, not just pakistan. The kind of crimes you shameless people do against not just your own people but against J&K is shameless and so shameful even amnesty intl could not stop raising voice about it. There is media blanket ban in kashmir. Rapes and crimes going on at hands of serving hindustani military soldiers under protection of AFSPA and a hinduatni will lecture us about values. You ppl never had values and you will never have one, because the only value you have is committing crimes and terrorism.

            Pakistan will continue to uncover your filthy face infront of the world, take you to UN over killing of pakistani innocent kids at hands of RAW terrorists and keep apprehending and breaking RAW terrorist network in the world. And then we couldn’t care less about the narrative installed in your tiny brains about taking revenge from pakistan and teaching pakistan a lesson.

            All day you hindustanis are spending your worlthless life time on pakistani forums while banning pakistanis on your forums and then have shameless courage to tell oh we dont care about pakistan. The only thing that comes out of your mouths is hate, venom, ridicule, and garbage. Tiny people with tiny hearts.

            Do yourself a favor, and remain shut. I ‘m not here to level off with your kind but if you will force me i will. It’s better you just shut up.

          • MT

            Russia sell around 3 bill$ yrly equipment to India which cant be matched by Pakistan!

            pakistan cant buy F16 at cost price without FMS support

          • Hindukush

            Might be prudent not to buy those machines at $87 million a pop enjoy those Rafeals at $200 million a pop. Good luck now go get a life

          • jigsaww

            Russia is different under Putin. They do not care about Hindustan’s any more than getting their hard begged AID money by showing crippled faces to the west.

            The only reason Russia came to Pakistan is to develop a strategic relationship. They know Pakistan may not have a lot to buy but still they are doing it. There is a reason for it.

          • rtnguy

            The same Pakistan whose ISI trained Ivan Omar khattab the butcher of beslan. Lets not even get to ur actions in 1980s. Right now 4 countries including India have their arsenals of nukes targeted at ur country. The only thing which stops 3 of them – Israel, US and UK is China . If not for China u would not be on the map of this world currently. But every dog has his day. U will be the cause of the downfall of the mighty Chinese empire

          • jigsaww

            According to who? As far as proofs go, hindustani serving RAW agent found in killing of innocent kids not only adults is caught by pakistan. That is the level hindustanis can droop to in their hate is what pakistan need to understand.
            Well what is stopping you from firing those arsenals?
            Measure up to your dhotis and do it. Why come complaining to me.
            I’ll tell you why. Because you do not have the balls, otherwise you are itching for war every second.

          • rtnguy

            Lol proof. Didn’t musharaf ask for the same when he was told that bin Laden was in Pakistan. Where is the proof? We found that out didn’t we in abbotabad. Or for that matter kargil where Pak denied presence of any paki soldier and then gave gallantry awards to non existent soldiers. Don’t live in dream world. Everyone knows the reality of ur army ISI combine including ur cheeni masters

          • jigsaww

            Hindustani. Still stuck in stone age news? read what Seymour hersh has written recently on OBL, and what Pakistan has been saying from day 1 about US lying and Hindustani seconding the lies (i mean what else would you hindustanis do). Abreast yourself with what’s going on around the world presently.

          • rtnguy

            If u choose to read Seymore Hersh u will realize that he has clearly stated that ISI was hiding Bin Laden and a ISI agent defected to CIA giving that info after which Pakistan was forced to cooperate with US . The word here is ISI hiding Bin Laden and being forced to cooperate

          • jigsaww

            Yeah and i suppose that’s the “version” of seymour hersh being reported in hindustani media? and why not?

            Do yourself a favor and read it from neutral sources. The US lied to its own people and the world. Saudia backed off. Pakistani ISI is the only intel agency that could capture and prisoned him despite all the sats up there for CIA.

            you are a hindustani. You life depends on opposing everything coming from Pakistan. What else would you if not lie about pakistan?

          • rtnguy

            Lol that house in abbottabad was hardly a prison. Hindustan is a 5000 year civilization. It’s life does not depend on opposing a 50 year entity called Pakistan. We do have a problem with Pak army and isi though cse they are gangsters in uniform

          • jigsaww

            lol. 5000. Reality check. There was no hindustan before 1947, just the subcontinent under rule of mughals for hundreds of years going back all the way. it’s not like pakistan fell from skies one day schmuck. It’s been there since creation of earth too, so keep your lies zipped. your history began on 1947, before that not even worms knew what hindus are.

            Sure you have a problem with ISI and pak army cuz they keep rabid dogs in check. They do have an effect of giving you mental breakdown on internet, so i can imagine the shocks youre having in real life.

            When in doubt about hindustani terrorist army, read amnesty intl reports. cowardice has found new name.

          • rtnguy

            So funny. Ur beloved mughals wrote thousands of historical documents. All mention Hindustan and there is not one mention of Pakistan. Did they get amnesia. Off course mention of India goes back even farther. Anyways won’t debate any further with u. As for paki army we have squatted on them so many times that we are bored beating them on battlefield. nuclear weapons are another matter as life of one Indian is more precious than lives of 180 million jihadis for us and off course we know the game Chinese are playing with us using u as pawns.

          • rtnguy

            And do remember we have the nuke capacity to eliminate 180 million pakis from this earth but we keep quiet as ur powerful friends may loose their composure seeing180 million burnt out bodies rotting from Khyber to karachi

          • jigsaww

            Please keep in mind that Pakistan has similar capability, only better.

          • jigsaww

            Stop laughing. You sound like an idiot laughing off self created fabrications.

            I’m still trying to figure out are you all hindustanis that ignorant or are you a special case?

            Frankly, i have to say. You ppl reek of slavery and low self esteem man every time i come across one of your kind. That is where you go back to in time and your DNA.

          • rtnguy

            U have still not answered as to why historical chronical of mughals like akbarnama, jahangirnama or shahjahannama do not mention Pakistan anywhere but do mention Hindustan. Why historical Greek travellers like megasthenes called ur present land as part of indica. This blows mile long hole in ur thesis that Pakistan is a historical entity. As for my statement that Pak army is a gangster force living on Chinese patronage. Lots of people agree with my thesis

          • jigsaww

            Possibly because present day hindustanis were best suited for slavery to them. I mean what else defines hindustanis if not slavery?

            Pakistan is what the world knows as indus valley civilisations while just across the border slave valley wildlife was being crafted.

            Pakistan and hindustan were always meant to be different and separate, the same way naxals, sikhs, muslims, Christians, kashmiris, jains, bhudists, as well as women need to separate away from hindustani upper caste oppression.

          • rtnguy

            Now this is beyond funny. Indus valley civilization was spread out over a large area which included both India and Pakistan. There are large sites of indus civilization in India as well including dholvira and lothal. The people of indus Worshipped Shiva and Shakti both of which are Hindu gods. They also Worshipped idols. This means that indus valley people were Hindus and Indians. Now by associating indus valley civilization with Pakistan u are only supporting my thesis that there never was a historical entity called Pakistan

          • jigsaww

            It must feel humiliating accepting that Pakistan hails from the indus valley civilisation. I mean the kind of hate you had could only be refuted with fact.

            Listen it does not really matter what fabrications you keep bringing. What history tells us is that neither was there any pakistan nor Hindustan before 1947.

            And as for hindus, they’ve been lying in feet of mughals and british and if it wasn’t for Jinnah, muslims of pakistan today would have been oppressed just like in hindustan, burnet and lynched by mob wide crowds at will just for saying the word beef when it actually is mutton.

            You people are from stone age, literally. Wild and jahil.

          • rtnguy

            On one hand U are proudly claiming indus valley civilization for pakistan. On the other hand, when I have conclusively proved to u that indus people were proto hindus, the same people whom u call jahil, u are ignoring the subject. First decide what pakistan is- a legatee of hindu civilizations of past which inhabited the land of indus or a new entity born in 1947. Also first read about hindu beliefs before making ur nonsense comments. Hindus believe that God is omnipotent so resides in everything and yet is beyond everything. Matter is a manifestation of supreme energy we called bhagwan. So hindus do not distinguish between worshipping formless god or god with form. They are one and the same. Many hindu sects like arya samajis do not worship idols while many do. If u are looking at scientific basis of religion then there are many things in islam that are wildly unscientific like Muhammad as final prophet of god. Religion is spiritual and beyond scientific inquiry.

          • jigsaww

            There is no proof of hinduism as a religion in recorded history.

            The only religions to have existed in recorded history are either judaism, christianity, or Islam. The offshoots do not matter and have no defining moment in history of mankind. Hinduism is not a religion. It is simply how stories have influenced peoples lives, today called a religion.

            I do not have any interest in discussing religion with you and neither is this forum for that. This is your personal choice whether to worship a hand made stone, an animal, pluto, or a virus. You are free to choose. Take it somewhere else.

            You can remain fixated on whatever idiotic fantasies of civlization you think you belong to with a country that depicts a picture of era before stone age with slum dwellers, 700 million people living like animals and forced to sell their organs to live a life, if that’s what you like to call civiliazation, my standards are pretty different. What matters is what is the future for these two countries. Will it be Akhand bharat or Greater pakistan. It seems like the two nation theory was more than true and we are realising this 70 years into the partition. Had it not been true, both hindustan and pakistan would have come to same page. It’s not happening. Jinnah was right and a master genius to see this into centuries ahead. You prepare for akhand bharat. We will prepare for a counter ideology since every ideology needs a counter to destroy it.

          • rtnguy

            Lol cowardice and Pakistan have special relationship. For starters at least have the courtesy to take back the bodies of near 10000 Pakistanis rotting in Indian graveyards whose existence u refuse to acknowledge. This includes ajmal kasab as well.

          • jigsaww

            Indeed. Cowardice and Pakistan have special relationship.

            Where cowardice = Hindustan.

            And judging by the cowardly ways hindustanis operate, there isn’t a better way to describe Hindustani mindset than backstabbing, planning conspiracies, lacking courage going one on one.

          • jigsaww

            Please stop this nonsense of Russia will lose all contracts and all. That is the only argument Hindustanis have. Neither has anything like that ever happen or will happen. Russia sells to China without worrying about Hindustans whining and has started to selling to Pakistan without caring about Hindustan’s whining. At the end of the day, Hindustan will fall in line due to own incapacity to measure up to China or even producing any acceptable standard weapon. This is your personal opinion at best and does not count practically. You can try exercising it and see where it leaves hindustan.

            Yes S-400 will be a good addition. Very lethal. But contrary to what hindustanis are presenting it as the invincible system, it’s not. Russians need to do that because they need to market it. Hindustan is merely a consumer. Any one understanding the technicalities would understand this. It will give tough time to Pakistan but will only require additional tactics to outmatch it. First of all, S-400 will have very very tough time intercepting the STOW and LACMs because of its incapacity to look over the horizon and unable to read terrain hugging missiles. Against medium range ballistic missiles it is effective. Pakistan can and will unveil very simple strategies to outmatch S-400. LACM is one. MIRV and MARV based missiles is second, despite hindustan’s repetition of Pakistan not having this in 100 years, if and when needed, will be acquired. Third Pakistan could simply trick the S-400 system by launching swarm of dummy or self destructing low cost UCAVs and depleting the hindustani air defences (this is my personal favourite). S-400 is a peace time system whose efficacy is most pronounced in peace time as seen in Syria. In war time, it will be on hit list to be taken out within first few hours of strikes using depletion methods and LACM to disrupt the entire Command and control. It is a heavy largely immobile system which makes it very difficult to rotate.

            Pakistan would be least worried about any Hindustani so called BMD. What hindustan itself will eventually turn to is the Russian or american or israeli systems to provide cover.

            Pakistan will provide a similar response to Hindustan just about the same time S-400 is deployed. Upgraded HQ9 systems, equivalent to S-400 will be ready in 5 years time and will be deployed by Pakistan to provide area denial to HIndustan in similar manner. Here Hindustan has benefit of geo depth, but will have to operate from far eastern sectors since all western, northern, and southern sectors beyond new delhi, ahmedabad, etc. This is in contradiction with deployment of hindustani air force with majority of its FABs based very near to Pakistan border. As of today even every single sortie of hindustani air force is on PAF’s watch and radar’s 24/7.

            Eventually Hindustan will find it equally difficult to implement any aerial strategies without being treated the same way.

            Give it time and it will be clear to you.

          • rtnguy

            Lol if u follow Chinese weapons purchases from Russia, they never purchase in bulk but buy small numbers and copy it en masse. India on the other hand does not break proprietary law. As for defeating S 400 with LACM like Babur, maybe u are not aware that Babur is ancient tech subsonic missile. Modern radars like swordfish which India has and will be integrated with S400 can easily detect Babur. Destroying Babur will be easy for akash alone, S400 will be overkill.Mass producing ucavs, good luck with that cse even ur master China cannot do it. As for deploying Chinese ADs in ur FABs, it will be great for us as most of it FABs will be burning in first 10 minutes of war. Ever heard of pinaka MBRLs. India will be deploying 1 million salvos on Pak border, one salvo can destroy anairfield easily.

          • jigsaww

            Need i remind you of the world’s best records made on an air force? It’s the hindustani air force holding world record of being shot down most in aerial warfare in all human history, or in your case, shitstory, all at hands of a 6 times smaller air force. Every time. In every battle it sucked.

            We’ll see how much you hold up with S-400 because as it comes, your dhotis wont.

          • rtnguy

            Whoo hoo. I am so ashamed. IAF lost all battles with PAF which is why PAF stopped all offensive sorties in 1971 , refused to take part in kargil when IAF was butchering mard e momins of NLIs. Or maybe Bangladesh was carved out of India by super duper PAF, operation Gibraltar was a stupendous success of MM alam because of which paki army won Kashmir in 1965

          • jigsaww

            Read about 1971 air battle. The kind of shame hindustani air force brought to itself once again after being humiliated in 65.
            As far as results go in kargil, hindustan ended up with more casualties and aircraft down without a single loss to PAF despite tall claims by hindustanis about their migs locking on F-16s. This actually showed PAF has better EW over HAF while after 26/11 hindustani jets did not even know when PAF jets locked on them. hindustan air force never matched up to pakistan air force and will never. It’s a local domestic level air force that cannot even train its own self well, and wants to be compared to PAF which trains and is respect among the best and trains the best.

          • rtnguy

            So why is Bangladesh an independent country

          • jigsaww

            Because of Hindustan’s hatred towards Pakistan, its conspiracy to break Pakistan by creating and arming terrorist groups, creating false and hateful propaganda, and due to corrupt and incapable political leadership of the time in Pakistan.

            You know it too. Don’t come back with moronic reasons.

  • MT

    Blowing Pakistan’s expectations of making Russia a key ally in times to come, Russian President Vladimir Putin has rejected an invitation to visit Pakistan for the inauguration of the North-South Pipeline Project with Moscow. The reason cited was “not enough substance in this trip”.

    Dated: 29 April 2016

    • jigsaww

      The substance is being created. Sab say pehlay tujhay he dil ka dora paray ga agar trip arrange ho giya tau. Hold on to your dhoti tight.

      • Hindukush

        Hold your dhoti tight and don’t let the bedbugs tight

      • Abdul Rashid

        Talking of substance, is there any to the possibility of PA procuring this “advanced tank” from Russia?

        • jigsaww

          Can’t say for sure but I think PA is focusing on gunships and SAMs acquisitions from Russia mainly besides possible SU-35 deal for PAF. Armata is still in development and may not be ready for export to Pakistan at least for few more years. Besides it just might not pass Pakistan army tests when the time comes, so we never know. Pakistan is more likely to source the Turkish Altay.

          • We might see a few Altay eventually, but attention is on the Haider program. I reckon we will see pick up the VT-4 and modify it by adding the Altay’s electronics and Akkor active protection system. It’d be a 50-55 ton tank, a good middle for the Altay (65 ton) and al-Khalid (45 ton).

          • jigsaww

            I would love that and i’m sure Pakistan army as well as pakistanis are looking forward to seeing altay in PA.
            It’s a sturdy tank.
            All in all Pakistan needs to put its stakes in more turkish products and financially support these.

          • Abdul Rashid

            “I reckon we will see pick up the VT-4 and modify it by adding the Altay’s electronics and Akkor active protection system”.

            Is this something you wish to see based on your personal analysis or has there been some info release to that effect? Anyway, If that is the case would it make sense for Pak to acquire some Altay tanks too (as you suggest as a possibility) when they will have the best of the 2 (Altay and VT-4) combined into an “optimum” tank suited for Pak requirements?

            Actually my query is broader than just the new tank procurement. Recently Pak military announcements regarding new acquisitions seems to be moving away from the once cost-effective, well structured and cohesive policy of limited variants of equipment, ease of maintenance and of course suited and tailored to Pak needs to a new policy of hotchpotch of all kinds of equipment, like a Saudi style (albeit on a far smaller scale) mad dash to “get it all”. Su-35, 4 types of helis for COIN and now Altay and a separate Al-Haider project. My concern is down the road Pak time and budget will be consumed in trying to maintain all these different types of platforms. With the JF-17 PAF appeared to be simplifying and enhancing it’s operational preparedness by replace three older platforms with one but now seems to be looking to fall into the trap voluntarily.

            I know this is not a query with a quick short answer and you have been covering each individual forces arm in depth anyway but would not harm to do a short piece to take a broader look at the change taking place across the entire Pak military and how this new modernised military will look in say 15 to 20 years.

    • I’d chalk that up to the handicap that is the Gov’t of Pakistan. No foreign relations calibre (or intent), this was abound to happen. No Indian weapon could overcome the burden of Pakistani politics.

  • Ehsan Habib

    With Pakistan turning around and the menace of terrorism finally receding, it is no more a secret that Pakistan is going to jump the development bandwagon anyTime.
    Russia knows it too well that sooner or later Pakistan will have enough cash to throw around for the toys, anyway can’t they have some if India can go for western systems ????

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