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India and France finalize Rafale deal
March 25, 2017
Source: Wikipedia (U.S. Air Force photo by Chief Master Sgt. Gary Emery)

India and France finalize Rafale deal

 

After a series of requirements shifts and protracted negotiations, India and France have finalized an $8.8 billion U.S. purchase for 36 Dassault Rafale multi-role fighters.

In addition to the 36 fighter aircraft, the Indian private sector will also receive nearly $4.5 billion U.S. in commercial offset investments from France. The package also includes weapons as well as spare parts and other maintenance/logistical necessities.

Once inked, India will become Dassault’s third export customer to acquire the Rafale, and this deal will serve to maintain Dassault’s enduring relationship with the Indian Air Force (IAF) well into the future.

In some ways, the commercial offset clause may be a more pivotal aspect for India, more so than the planes themselves, especially in the long-term. This deal opens the way forward for France’s various defence vendors, such as Thales Group and Safran Group, to make substantive investments in India’s defence industry.

In turn, the entry of these firms will hasten the rising stature of India’s promising private sector and infuse high-value expertise in areas such as radar and turbofan development, to name a few. Moreover, the IAF will likely procure additional Rafales in the future, and it is plausible to suggest that later batches could be produced in India. Dassault may also be interested in pushing its fortunes with the Indian Navy as well – marketing the Rafale for use on India’s next wave of aircraft carriers.

The deal is expected to be inked within three weeks, the first aircraft will be delivered after 18 months. With the medium-weight requirement essentially resolved, the IAF will likely move its focus towards shoring up its lightweight fighter, the Tejas. Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) is in touch with Saab over the prospect of developing a new variant of the fighter.

It will be important to see how the IAF’s Rafale acquisition shapes the Pakistan’s procurement route. The central challenge is not the technology that India will receive (though it is a significant aspect), it already has access to comparable sub-systems and is on-track to incorporating them to its mainstay fighter, the Sukhoi Su-30MKI. But the Rafale is an excellent medium weight design, and it will serve to resolve the IAF’s long-term requirement for a fighter to sit between its heavyweight (Flanker) and lightweight (Tejas) fleets.

The Pakistan Air Force (PAF) will double-down the JF-17 Block-III program, perhaps elevate the sub-system requirements in terms of performance and capability. Plans will likely be chalked up for additional JF-17s (after the initial 150). But beyond depending upon the JF-17 program, the desire for a substantially more capable fighter-type may see more impetus. Unfortunately, the PAF will be constrained by Pakistan’s limited economic means and poor foreign relations currency.

 

  • Ashi Sidhu

    finally a deal but more important is if more such fighters and their tech follows with the investment through offset clause

    • MT

      offset is the crux of this deal.
      Imagine the scale of capabilities after3-4 bill $ investment in indian pvt sector.

      Usa lost F16 & F18 as they are unreliable country who aid a country with doles while their non nato ally army’s harbour taliban & 0ther punjabi kashmir based terrorist

      • Abdullah Aman

        MT this is pakistani form you are not well here go fuck your self some where else

        • Mustafa O

          Listen what to expect from a MODI TOADY

      • bla bla

        What about RSS bajrang dal and terrorist Modi ajit doval ?

        • Ashi Sidhu

          terrorist modi was given highest civilian honour by saudi arabia

          • bla bla

            Saudi is a monarchy They also accepted Talibans and given them protocol and welcomed them red carpet. Now tell me what is the difference between Modi & Taliban ?

          • nob

            taliban are the most brave pure freedom fighter don’t compare them with coward modi rss and bajrang daL. it is an insult to taliban

      • Hindukush

        If you are a Shia may Bibi Zainabs wrath hit you and your Hindu masters ,I am a Shia and despise your kind of Mir Jaffars and Mir Sadiqs may you get the same leporasy strain that Mir Jaffer got

        • MT

          Shia ll always support india over sunni pakistan which regularly kills shia aided by its sunni army; harboring sunni taliban, lashkar toieba, jaish muhammad & many others such as lashkar janghwi, sipahe salawa, chhotu gang

          • Mustafa O

            Shia are 25% represented in pak military, so ur assertion is totally bullshit. But then what to expect from a modi todi who clains to be a shia but actually is across breeder of hindu modi and a dalit …wonder how u sleep with all this whipping … Oh i get it its a baigharat on the forum

          • Hindukush

            25%of Pakistan is Shia and we love Pakistan half my family is in the army Muhammad Ali Jinnah was a Shia so kiss me where the sun don’t shine dumb dothead wanna be a Shia

          • jigsaww

            I think you’ve already consumed your allocated quota of hate/troll spewing on this article.

            Shut up now and Wait for next article.

        • Ashi Sidhu

          BTW dont get blown up in a suicide bombing

        • jigsaww

          Don’t take him seriously. He could be anyone from a liar to a mentally challenged hindu faking to be whatever.

          The purpose of his life is spreading hate, trolling, and creating fitnah in people and pakistanis. It is pretty clear by now.

          He just needs to puke 10 pages of anti-pakistan hate every 24 hours to be able to sleep 8 hours. Just doing that and can’t help it.

      • jigsaww

        stop jumping like apes from tree to tree.
        The deal is NOT signed as of now.

  • MT

    pakistan ll have to forget few mil pod deals with France & look towards cheen and Italian maal.

    • bla bla

      We dont need French pods it was dwell we played it and India got sun standard Rafales for 9 billions such a shame on War monger

      • MT

        if rafale is substandard theen cheeni maal are junk & tin cans.

        9blll is life cycle cost that includes spares weapons and armaments

        • bla bla

          Sub standard junk for 9 billion dollar shame on Indian democracy instead China are cheaper and better ones 😀 😀

        • Mustafa O

          And then whwre do u think tweety bird stands… In ur delhi slumyard

          • MT

            tejas is better product than junked mig33/jf17.

            it is delayed but it provides india with complete control over product.
            indja spent 3decades of research to build subsystem for tejas while pak simply assembled junk fighter from knocked down kits

          • Mustafa O

            As i said u r ignorant indian scum who doesn’t know what he is writing. Mig33 was a twin engine defunct russian Project which has to day culminated into indian and russian pakfa. Awwwww, dont b surprised… Winder where did one f16 in 80s end up in this world…. Chinese a clever enough to copy the quality product..

            Qudos to india for spending god knows on what sub system for tejas 3 decades that even iaf refused to buy. As i said, hindus don’t have a martial mind hence they will always lag in quality and capabilities…. Better resettle in iran than be a modi toady.. Ur sooo lost poor slum dweller

          • MT

            Following the cancellation of U.S. and European companies’ participation in the development of the Westernized Chengdu J-7 variant known as the “Super-7”, China launched a program in 1991 to develop an indigenous evolution of this MiG-21-based design, which it designated the FC-1 (“Fighter China 1”). To expedite its development, officials of the Chengdu Aircraft Industries Corporation (CAC) or the China National Aero-Technology Import and Export Corporation (CATIC) – perhaps both – approached Mikoyan for technical support. In 1998, CATIC purchased Izd 33 design and test information from the Mikoyan design bureau, along with other research anjd development assistance. These designs were used in development

          • Mustafa O

            Retard, stop waisting my precious time. U shud fart once lest u r paid to give as many replies as possible. Don’t expect must from a cross breed hindu and a shia.

          • MT

            moron finally had to accept that junk fighter 17 is copy cat junked version of mig 33

          • Mustafa O

            Stop farting around plz. No PLAce for choooras on this forum…. Take care of ur tweety bird…. Wake me up when it is finally inducted in IAF

          • rtnguy

            Worse still, its source code is in C++, the most hackable language on earth. Pakistanis dont even have programmers to design own software of junk fighter 17.Even my 12 year brother can hack JF17, he has hacked dozens of C++ codes.

          • MT

            MiG-33 has been associated with two different Mikoyan fighter designs. It was first employed for a single-engined, lightweight strike fighter similar in capabilities to the F-16 Fighting Falcon. More formally known as “Project 33”, development work began on this design about 1980, but it was cancelled in 1986 as the result of changing Soviet Air Force requirements. However, in 1998 China purchased the design and test data from Russia to aid in expediting the development of the Chengdu JF-17/FC-1

          • MT

            u don’t need martial inbred mind to develop technology.
            look at ceo of fortune 500 companies from Google to Microsoft & u ll fynd so many martial intelligent pakistani ceo

          • MT

            I understand that bakis import aluminum of fuselage and all u do at kamra is assembly of cheeni maal.

            indian companies make 60% tejas in india. they import radars Nd engine but eventually mk2 ll have indian uttam aesa radar while indian k9/k10 90+kn engine ll be produced before 2025. As present drdo manufacturing twenty b80Kn kaveri turbofan variant with enhanced single crystal blade tech & 3d printed components.
            once these 20 engine r manufactured then they ll move forward to more powerful core with 3d thrust vectoring technology.
            india is 10yrs behind cheen in turvit but we ll close gap with 3 bill $ offset investment of rafale, GE 414 ++ turbofan manufacturing plant in india

          • Mustafa O

            Ok… A paper tiger is better than a real fighter now in service for 8 years ….. Wonder how much do u get for being such a dickhead

          • MT

            block 1 doesn’t even hav bvr capabilities.
            Radar engine and actuators r of 3rd gen quality

          • Mustafa O

            Aawwwww modi toady, it must come as a shock but all JF 17s have a common software upgrade which means they not only have bvrs (unlike tweety bird) but also have data link, EWMS and any jf can be flown down to sea to deliver 200 km c802 anti ship missile. Aawwwww, dont worry, ur tweety bird is atleast flying… It will comeup but will take another 5 years

          • MT

            dumboss block1 still can’t fire bvr missile as it has substandard radar which cant sense above 50km

            tejas has helmet mounted display bvr right from its mk1 version.

            mk1a which ll come out before ur junk block 3 ll have more advanced aesa electronic warfare while u bakis ll feel pridr in assembling chinese built jf17

      • rtnguy

        Rafale is the most advance plane on the planet and can blow any J20,31 from the sky, let alone JF17. IAF knows inside out of JF17 thanks to russia giving its cancelled Mig 33 simulators. Rafale beat JF17 25:1. Chinese have no clue about sensor tech in rafale or even F15 Silent Eagle. F35 could have been the most advance plane if not for its lousy single engine.

        • jigsaww

          That’s too modest of you. I was expecting something like Rafale can blow out alpha centauri out of universe.

          Keep us entertained. You are doing good.

          • rtnguy

            again, u obviously betray ur ignorance. Obviously it entertains me.

  • bla bla

    Well its meaning less for Pakistan to spend 9 billion in acquiring Rafales Pakistan is a deter-ant power . I dont know why your emphasizing on the stereo type of being poor economically. If Pakistan want to spend 9 Billion dollar in defense PAF can get 24 SU 35(2 billion),8 MILGEM corvettes (2 billion ), 36 SU 34 (2 billion), 2 to 3 Nuclear submarines (2 billion ) or 8 Frigates (2 billion ) and 1 billion (Advance Surface to Air missile system ) . Thanks to PAF after demanding Precision(democlas ) pods which helped France to make the deal final. India needs Rafale against China and Pakistan . Now Pakistan has to work on acquiring SU 35 which is already in loop according to my sources along with Mi 35 😀 Build a advance SAM simple and early warning system more naval platform submarines, corvettes and destroyers on 10 years lease or maybe more . After 2020 J 20 and J31 would be over future platform 🙂 Nothing to lose I think at one point Russia will offer PAKFA too 😀

    • Ashi Sidhu

      russia will offer PAK FA to pakistan is the biggest joke of the year

      • bla bla

        India is no longer a part of PAK FA now IAF is aligned to France and USA After 2025 Pakistan will have options of PAK FA , J 20 , J 31 ,TAI TFX . India is confined to west Pakistan has access every where 😛

        • Ashi Sidhu

          illiterate

          • bla bla

            😀 No man in real world

        • MT

          Pak fa is delayed to 2025+india is very much part of project.

          Lol turkey can’t make anything without Western system.Indian r&d is much more matured than turks.
          I can bet that turks with no xperience of aircraft manufacturing ll take 2decades to make TFX

          • bla bla

            India has already pull out of it Now its Russia alone India is not able to make a simple jet without Russia and Israel . Such a shame

          • MT

            name 1 turkish aircraft made by sunni turkey? ?

            indian tejas is nearing completion with mass scale production.

            India remain part of T50/Pak Fa

          • bla bla

            radar from Israel engine from Russia what type of a indigenous jet is it ?

          • MT

            cheeni jf17 j10 or j31 too uses ruskis engine.

            jf17 is junked. mig33; designed by societ and sold to cheen

          • Mustafa O

            Cheenis are atleast 50 years ahead of you shitty infians. Suggest u come out of cow dung and visit china. You will b spell bound. U cannot catch them even in a decade. Thats not ehat hindus are capavle of. Get rid of ur caste system first

          • MT

            moron I have visited china and I know that they r ahead but their gdp in 2006 was similar to indian gdp of 2016.

            I don’t understand how u got to the 50yrs difference

            As a shia muslim I am more pragmatic than u bakis wanna be arab & I feel that hindus are by far more intelligent, competent than sunni who are stuck in shariah, cousin inbreeding, &wahabi extremism

            except shia iran no sunni country can beat hindus in science and technology

          • Mustafa O

            A modi toady and a shia. Well here is anew revelation by a hindu DH. pakistan has no problem with iran and shias lest u r specifically hired to create that dissent , which btw is a futile attempt. U need to be on ut new indian masters saudia website to create that affect. Shias and sunnis dont matter as a whole in Pakistan… Scum

          • Mustafa O

            Ur economy will always be 4 to 5 times smaller to chinese. Ur slums and infrastructure is 100 years behind china. Plus u have to invest heavily on building toilets for 750 million open defecators… Moron dreaming of matching china in economy… Scum slum dweller

          • MT

            dumboss. Google china economy 2006 and it was same as indian economy of 2015.

            india ll close gap with china n next 20yrs.

            govt Already made 100mill toilet in rural region for free. its up to people if they like to use or not

            india railway budget is bigger than pak total federal budget.
            india have metro in 6 cities which ll be 10by 2020

            india is building high speed railway and freight corridor so we ll have separate rail for goods and 2000km long industrial corridor by 2020.
            I don’t expect logical discussion from bakis who don’t even have a decent functional railway

          • Mustafa O

            Disagree……. Russians contnued with defunct mig33 twin engine fighter programme to develop ur fgfa or shall we call it pakfa. Cheen j20 is a competly diffetent design but ur defunct russian pakfa is heavily influenced by mig33

          • MT

            dumboss mig 33 and Sukhoi T50 /Pak Fa have nothing in common.
            one is made by mig while other is Sukhoi built

          • Mustafa O

            So… Indians are always available with legs open to buy any technology, even junk one

          • MT

            buying is not begging u dumboo.
            Buyers are treated as masterd while pak is country with bowl
            its pak which spreads it’s leg in return of usa nd cheeni money.

          • Mustafa O

            Who said tweety Bird is indegenous. But indians are so dumb they cannot even produce one even after 33 years. Guess this blackee was not even bkrn then, its that old design

          • Mustafa O

            Whats up with u hindu that gets rattled by sunni or shia. I mean its no big deal here in pak, wonder why a blackee indian sleuth is so obsessed with sunnis? Talks of ur real motives to b on the forum.

            As i said b4, u need to get into some saudi or irani site to get respinses u desire.

            Quwa to take notice of this indian sleuth and his racist views

          • MT

            Turkey is supporting isis so what should I call them.

            Iran is the only intelligent muslim nation which has future

          • jigsaww

            Hindustani R&D is much more mature than Turkish?

            LOL.

            You must be on some hindustani desi cheap drugs to be making that statement.
            Mature is not even a word to be ever associated with the desi garbage hindustanis are rolling out.

          • MT

            turks buy german sam and rename it to hisar.

            There is nothing made in Turkey indigenous. They cannot make engine flight control inertial navigation seekers. . most of their systems are sourced from West as they are member of MTCR & have access to all technology.

            Turks can’t make nuke reactor whilw india makes 220,440,700mw PWHR & fast breeder reactors.

            same for pak which cant even make thermal plant, turbine, simple boilers & heat extinguishers .

            india is ranked 6th manufacturing country while turkey is not in top10. pak not in top50.

          • jigsaww

            You can’t manufacture a fabrication properly.

            Talk of Top 6 and top 10. LOL.

          • MT

            Indian company bharat forge is words second biggest forger by revenue

          • MT

            Turkey can’t even make 2-5KN simple turbofan/jet engine while india is atleast 1 decade ahead with dozens of small and medium sized turbofan in manufacturing and development.

          • Mustafa O

            Yup the a decade ahead in espionage activities like the American jailed in us for selling f15 blue prints to india.
            And then u have the cheeks to claim that indians are so damn intelligent that all of ur defunct weapon programmes are indigenous. Stop fooling around

          • MT

            Lady had outsourced manufacturing to india.
            she was barely making some trivial parts from her manufacturing plant in india. she sent tech spec of her product to india which isn’t crime.

            she was given minor punishment for producing faulty parts. sending blueprint of her designed systems to her own subsidiary in india isnt federal crime

          • Mustafa O

            I never inferred ur mama was involved in espionage. Its a fact and no one on this forum wull buy ur flimsy excuses … Better shut up and accept lest u r specifically paid for these responses

    • MT

      Unit nuke subs cost 2-3 bill$. su35 flyway cost is 80-90mill $ that dont include parts spares armament

      • bla bla

        French nuclear submarines cost above 3 billion dollar
        American Nuclear submarines cost between 1 to 2 billion depands upon which one you want
        Russia and Chinese Nuclear submarine cost you around 1 to 1.2 billion

        • MT

          no nuke submarine cost less than 2bill.
          by the way American nuke EMALS subs cost 10-12 bill $

          india is planning to get tot of emals if usa wants india to join Asian pivot

  • jigsaww

    First rule of gauging hindustani defence deals: Believe it when you see it. It just might be start of another stage drama.

    Then there are also reports coming of HIndustan getting compromised version of the Rafales, meaning french will possibly not provide the desired cutting edge equipment now. We’ll have to see on that too.

    Second off, it will take 3 years after signing of deal for first rafale to be in hidnustanis air force and 7 years to have 2 squadrons working, i.e. by 2023 by earliest. Potency of 4.5th gen fighters will be greatly reduced by that time because of leading countries in the world already deploying 5th gen fighters by then and advancing AD and associated defence/offensive systems to large extent. S-500 for example will be deployed by then and so will be Chinese equivalent of that.

    We’ll have to see what PAF’s response will be but it will most likely have to re-assess the equation and capability gaps here. Primarily it will depend on what goodies PAF is able to absorb and install into the JF-17 block 3 that will drive the acquisition or non acquisition of another platform. If the JF-17 offers sufficiently advanced AESA, IRST, HMD, and other goodies, PAF just might slip the schedule to straight away go for a 5th gen platform introduction. Otherwise a stop gap arrangement will have to be sought which will most likely come in shape of upgraded F-16s, J-10B/C or SU-35. A bleak possibility of acquiring “somewhat used” eurofighters is also possible post 2022. Financial and political hurdles to new acquisitions stand.

    The immediate response PAF can build is by deploying of upgraded HQ9 systems. That will offset the hindustani (expected) threatening to large extent.

    Once acquired, Rafales will become the most dependable element of hindustani air force and most serious threat to PAF, for a while.

    • bla bla

      India is a poor country and just a fool out of it by spending 9 billion dollar on 36 shame on Manohar Parrikar and Modi

      • jigsaww

        That kind of money could stop half of the population forced to selling own organs to get a livelihood, but priorities are misplaced in Hindustan. That is pretty obvious. It just might be that the pilots themselves will be going airborne on one kidney at some point.

        Hindustan and hindustanis are in a constant state of “war hangover” for past 70 years.

        Pakistan ought to see that.

        • bla bla

          Indians are war mongers. Biggest thread to Pakistan and China . Modi is becoming Hitler of Subcontinent and Asia

          • jigsaww

            Well hindustanis gathered the most aid in the world in last 70 years at expense of showing crippled malnourished slum dwelling hindustanis to the west. Now is the time to use it.

            In a way the aid money is finding its way back to where it came from.

          • bla bla

            Pakistan also has a chance to get J 20 export version which will come sooner after 2020 . HQ 9 with advance capabilities . SU 35 is already in loop . Euro fighter after 2022 does not make sense better to get J 20 or J-31 with advance feature . India is also with drawing from PAKFA . At one point Russia can offer us this jet after 2025 so our finger are crossed ^^ we have nothing to loose

          • bla bla

            @jigsaww:disqus
            What is the perspective of su 34 along with SU 35 ? i think its a good combination with an attack jet and MMRCA .

          • jigsaww

            The only bleak possibility that may come into fruition is SU-35 in numbers around 24 to 36.
            Pakistan will neither go for nor Russia will offer PAK-FA, SU-34 or any other platform for large part.
            We ought to be realistic.

          • bla bla

            I dont think so now Russia is open to us it depends upon Pakistan & PAF if they want to purse with SU 34 or just SU 35 . PAKFA Russia will produce now in short number first RAF needs above 100 jets but between 2025 to 2030 Pakistan can still have a chance if India don’t want to pursue it anymore . There would be a time in next 15 years that 5 generation technology will become mature Pakistan will get a lot of offers from Russia China could be Turkey …

          • jigsaww

            The only 5th gen fighter PAF is somewhat interested in is J-31.

            J-31 deal might be announced by 2020 if PAF assesses it to be required to balance equation.

          • bla bla

            In order to keep balance in the region Pakistan can negotiate and acquire J 20 but the real thing is how much advance is it in comparison with F 35 and F 22 , PAKFA ?

          • jigsaww

            It’s not more advanced than any Russian or American 5th gen fighter.

          • Ashi Sidhu

            focus on pak army vs “chotu” gang

          • bla bla

            Chotu has surrounded time to expose Doval & Modi

          • jigsaww

            The focus is on hindustanis and hindustani terrorists.

            Pakistani military does not take decades to root out criminals unlike hindustani military that shivers its dhotis entering into Naxal lands.

          • Mustafa O

            Chotu just surrendered with out a bullet from army. Now u shud worry how to tackle maoist, rebels from bodoland, nagaland and kashmir

        • Ashi Sidhu

          thats why probably with rafale jet arriving ur foreign minister spokesperson got his pans wet and asked for cooperation with india to cap the conventional defence arsenal does he think we are idiot LOL

          • bla bla

            Pakistan believe in peace but India has started a weapon race in south Asia . Rafale is nothing we can take down a 250 million dollar Rafale with a 1 million dollar missile and IAF would find a place to hide its face

          • MT

            pakistan boast of superior madrassa air force because in all 3 wars with pakistani being aggressors & first to bomb indian air bases esp in Bangladesh where india lost dozens of aircraft as war was on informally agreed to Western border

            Pakistan air force have failed badly the time iaf came into picture

          • bla bla

            If you have the ball come and start a war we will teach you a lesson that you will never forget This one hindu majority country will exist in books and history War monger . IAF is nothing ………….

          • Mustafa O

            Moron, mm alam was created due to iaf response to paf strikes. How those 5 hunters were sgkt down in kne day, man not even arabs are such bad pilots. But as i said, hindus are good in business, making money, movies and kama sutra…eave martial affairs to maybe at the best sikhs and Gurkhas.
            And now dont forceme to open a huge pandora of facts about how a small airforce whopped iaf ass ..
            2ndly, u foxy indians opened up front in the east by deploying 3 corps and 10 fighter sqn against one in east Pakistan. Dont tell me about history boy. U must stop reading raw provided distorted history

          • MT

            That’s why 1971 saw biggest surrender in history of mankind with in 2weeks of war. mm alam & others flew western aircraft as compared to 50 era hunter flown by iaf.

          • Mustafa O

            Bozo…. Thats why i say u are an ignrant raw shit made to pay albiet with stupid answers. Any aviation enthusiast knows very well that hunters were better fighters than sabres, with better thrust to wt ratio and maneuverability. As i said b4, IAF are the worst brand ambassadors. Their pilot ability in a combat situation highly questionable.

            As of 1971 war, if entire population is against, them mere 90000 army cant do much. It was a right decision to safe further bloodshed.
            But now that modi and his toadies have acknowledged colluding with mukhti bahni terrorists, i think pak stands justified in supporting legitmate kasmiri resistance.
            And no need to stay awake till 330am only to give a stupid reply

          • jigsaww

            It does not matter a bit what foreign or any minister wants or says.
            The foreign policy is written, driven, and executed by the military.

            The only cooperation Pakistan wants with Hindustan is on providing details about the hindustani terrorist RAW network and spy in hand.

            No one gives an ef about anything else related to hindustan.

          • Mustafa O

            Su 30mkis are russian junks, but rafale is an equalizer with AMRAAM c 5s. PAF will not be pushed if u buy 100 more su 30mki junks

          • Ashi Sidhu

            better get out madrassa and educate urselves on su 30s

          • Mustafa O

            Why dont u educate this madrassa student, so i cud gain more knowledge on this russian junk fighter that has been grounded multiple tumes due flt ctrl failures, inadvertent ejection, serviceability rate of 55% and god kniws what else. Wonder why the IAF is so desperate for a western fighter.

      • Ashi Sidhu

        8.8 billion is not just unit cost it is lifecycle cost including armaments+EW capabilities+spare parts+maintainence(hangars) and not to forget half of it will be invested back into india which will generate jobs for poor ,defence technology for india and trouble for pak-china

        • bla bla

          Behind the Rafale defense deal there is some thing that they share with media and Nation but a part of it which is never been shared with anyone “what France get and what India has to give ” . I am also hearing on some forum that the Rafale India will make would be sub standard and will not compete with the state of art technology

        • jigsaww

          Stop jumping. It’s a long way to go. Many things do and will change in 7 years.
          It’s not even signed yet. Don’t forget that.

    • Ashi Sidhu

      talking about PAF response 6 su 35s + more of junk fighter LOL!!!

      • bla bla

        If its a Junk why India is crying 😀 and threatening Russia for cancelling future defense deal ?

      • bla bla

        SU 35s along with 😀 HQ 9 or S 400 SAM 😀

        • bla bla

          India like French toys ? 😀

      • jigsaww

        you can’t digest 8. I wonder what another 6 will do.

        It won’t be 6 though. For a suitable hindustani punishment and desired mental breakdown of hindustanis, at least 20 will be acquired.

        • MT

          india cant tolerate its ally subsidise free f16 to terror sponsoring regime. we have no problem if pak buy the weapons from its pocket

          • jigsaww

            Hindustan ought to learn tolerating that since Pakistan has been tolerating Hindustan’s largest gathering of aid from all over the world by showing slums to the worlds and diverting that monies into exporting terrorism into its neighbours especially Pakistan, acquisition of guns bullets and more to wage wars.

            You as a hindustani are welcome to do whatever is in your might to pull US away. It is in US interest to not only provide F-16s to Pakistan but also upgrade them, subsidise their purchases, and give regular shutup calls to Hindustan on whining. It just doesn’t get thru your thick skulls otherwise there has been no success in hindustani crying and whining. Pakistan and US share a relationship going into decades.

            You get this right. As long as US stays in Afghanistan or even as long as it has interest in the region (read forever), it will always be in its interests to treat Pakistan above Hindustan, provide Pakistan with its needs and keep a joint relationship. And there is nothing Hindustan can do to change that.

            American only want to do business with Hindustan. The dream of Hindustanis dreaming to replace Pakistan and turn US against Pakistan only exposes little and superficial thinking of it as a nation.

            Sorry it won’t happen, but Pakistan will succeed in bringing Russia closer and China even closer.

          • MT

            afghanistan is messed up & pak have failed to deliver peace.

            pak may not even get those America old purchased weapons if pak army don’t get its pawn taliban to make peace.

            I see deep heavy sanction against pal post 2017

          • jigsaww

            Afghanistan has always been messed up. It’s just that you’ve grown up recently, so yeh. Welcome to the world.

            Yeah. Pakistan must be really afraid of the prediction a braincut hindustani just made. “Deep heavy sanctions”…lol..what the heck does that phrase even mean…

          • Mustafa O

            So it is modi toady. Who do u think paid for 2. 6 billion dollars for f16 blk 52 and mlu. U chooras

        • Ashi Sidhu

          reality is Pakistan is struggling to get even a fighter jet coz india kicking Pakistan in US,France,Russia

          • jigsaww

            As much as my ears have been hearing, hindustanis have been crying their pampers out for last 4 months over 8 F-16s while trying everything to block but failing. Do i hear you saying Pakistan is struggling? I’m not sure what kind of disease you have.

            Reality is you are a liar.

      • Mustafa O

        Look chooray, if paf can whip iaf ass with 140 fighters in 1965, 6 are more than enough for todays muted wars

        • MT

          pakistan boast of superior madrassa air force because in all 3 wars with pakistani being aggressors & first to bomb indian air bases esp in Bangladesh where india lost dozens of aircraft as war was on informally agreed to Western border

          pak have never scored good in 1-1 combat.

          its damn easy to destroy planes lying idle on hangers
          Pakistan air force have failed badly the time iaf came into picture

          • Mustafa O

            In one to one combat. U modi toady, have u even tried to red about history away from what has been taught to u ur text books. PAF scored 24 aerial kills in 1965 war out of 96 total destroyed. Sarfraz Rafiqui scored 4 kills (2 vampires on 1st September, 2 hunters over halwara)before sacrficing his life over halwara strike on 6th September. Mohd younus, destroyed 2 vamlires on 1st September, acting as Sarfraz wingman over chamb sector thus bagging 4 vampires on 1st September.
            7th September was a duck spree shooting for PAF where it destroyed 13 ingressing iaf fighters, 5 only bagged by mm alam. I can go on for ever, but since i am restricted on time unlike u. Dont shame ur airforce anymore

        • Ashi Sidhu

          “6 more than enough ”
          but the problem is when IAF bombs the runway of airbases most of which are in punjab not even those “6” will be able to takeoff
          whereas india has hundred of fighters scattered all over land n sea
          ;D

          • Mustafa O

            Well ur IAF abysmal performance in 65 and 71 wars are a ckear consolation indeed for PAF. not single airfield was taken off even for a few hours. So dont talk big. Ur history speajs nothing great about ur airforce

  • Abdul Rashid

    Good article in the sense it covers an Indian defence procurement deal on a “Pakistani” site in an honest, objective manner without the least hint of animosity or bias of any kind. The readers of course can make whatever they want of it and as usual the comments section has turned into a battleground but Quwa has done well to maintain it’s proffessional standards. Commendable reporting.

  • Smoking a Tejas

    There is a strong chance that this acquisition will severely curtail tejas development and procurement. Simply put the economics of procuring, integrating and maintaining yet another system will tap funds and attention away from other priorities. This may well be the death of the tejas.

    • jigsaww

      Tejas has become an ego problem for the Hindustanis. Otherwise it’s pretty much obvious and self-acknowledged by Hindustanis elsewhere that is a failure and garbage initiative that will be entirely scrapped in coming years without ever being inducted into hindustanis air force.

      But Hindustanis do have a tejas squadron now, comprising of two tejas samples. LOL.

      • MT

        2 currently but 6 ll be added by year end. 8 from 2017 & 16 from 2018 onwards.

        HAL has just invested 75mill $ in doubling manufacturing capabilities

        • jigsaww

          oh right 6 will be added by year end and by 2030 there will be full 18 tejas in service.

          Man, that is some progress. lol…

          Tejas is a failure. Period. It will only be forced on hindustani air force and will neither take an interdiction mission even, forget about it ever crossing the border, just like you are a keyboard warrior.

          Hindustanis are now world renowned leaders in making world class(less) junk in longest possible time.

          • MT

            They did test bvr with upgraded radar. Foc scheduled in July nd there are 6 on jig and 4 undergoing final assembly.
            so 6 ll be integrated by year end with old assembly while next yr ll see doubled output.
            u living in 2012..canopy and foot size minor issues wre resolved long ago

            HAL is pocketing out its own budget on assembly upgrade and outsourcing 60% work to pvt sector such as tata advanced materials, l&t, bharat forge and many other 100 companies.

          • jigsaww

            Is this some kind of self-therapy for you? Because it’s not working on the world at least.

            I’m so fed up of your garbage i lose interest after reading 4 words…

            But don’t let that stop you from rolling out more garbage. Both you and the DRDO.

          • MT

            ur nation rank in bottom 10 while india is atleast 50 ranked higher than bakistani

            so we don’t need to discuss logic and tech with garbage nation

          • jigsaww

            Hindustan is also ranked at least 50 times higher in poverty and low human development index, as well as producing humans with lowest IQ in the region.

            Indeed we do not need to logic and tech with a garbage nation.

          • MT

            Pakistan should have at least started basic r&d in radar,optronics and missile technologies

            No country ll share core IP & even if they do so then u need developed institutions of r&d to be able to grasp the technology.

            Military tech sharing is only done in bits and pieces. You develop the most on your own but pay Western consultants once u get stuck in some complicated sub system.
            In Pak it’s very simple as once you failed with indigenous suparco missile then u had Korean and cheeni solutions integrated by new companies (ned/nescom)who didn’t know ABC of missile technologies
            For nation like Pak with limited local research & higher focus on product integration; its hard to bargain technologies at moderate price.

            Pak never bothered to learn knowhow of subsystem from China. Product import/assembly of burraq,burraq, Babur/raad,zaarb,jf17,hj8/bakhtar shikan eats all the military budget leaving no room for indigenous product development. Where are those Pakistani Pvt /public sector who have contributed

            Radar product development needs a well established public sector driven industry where you already have developed some things from basics
            No matter how much you all criticize Indian delayed indigenous development; moderator & Pakistani planners see nothing substantial of military r&d in Pak while India had been doing over 40-50yrs .
            Of course it’s very hard to develop an industry which led to slow throughput of Indian missiles,radars,AWACS,fighter aircraft but once you cross the threshold then u find yourself in big league

    • MT

      tejas is a low end platform whose dev cost are met by HaL from its revenue and profits.
      tejas mk1 and mk1a barely cost 25-30mill $ respectively with israeli aesa radar & EW which ll be built with large tot as israel sees HAL demand to prove its mettle in aesa powered aircraft

      • Smoking a Tejas

        You seem to be indicating that Tejas is a private self funded program like the F 20 Tigershark developed by in house funding at HAL when that’s not the case. I’m clearly lost as to why HAL will channel its own profits into developing the Tejas if the Government isn’t interested in footing the bill?

        But considering HAL is a state owned company, the moneys being thrown into an underdeveloped, overdue and underperforming platform maybe just what the doctor ordered for the Indian aerospace industry.

        • MT

          tejas system r&d are funded by govt which goes into drdo 50+ labs.

          Hal is simply a manufacturer and assembler of various subsystem.
          Drdo ADA license tejas intellectual property of new system to HaL & other pvt sector who sell them to Hal.
          Hal buys radars,engine and other components from West.

          Atop of it Hal is running its own r&d programmes with 6-7 turbofan and turboshaft development from its internal budget & have been investing 200 mill$ to build high altitude engine test facilities .
          All r&d programme such as trainers and turbofan get no funds from airforce.
          Hal also make some cryogenic engine,liquid propulsion and manufacture many components for ISRO indian space programme.

          They raise revenue by selling to iaf,isro.

          The assembly line of tejas is mainly financed by HAL.

          Navy pay more than airforce as the naval version of tejas is getting full support from india navy

        • MT

          Tejas score big over junk fighter17 in : engine ,avionics ,radar ,digital fly by wire ,mass of aircraft.

          • Smoking a Tejas

            Well at least it knows how to make money and time disappear. And you can crow about the rest of its virtues after the tejas completes it’s ioc lvl 15 by 2030 hopefully.

          • MT

            u guys undermined indian r&d on their delayed missile,space rocket,radars,awacs , SLBM but they proved u wrong.
            look where do u stand in missile space tech radars SAM. At least 2-4 decade behind india . All u possess is cheeni maal r ryt from shaheen which is assembled M11 &;M18.

            pak ia among bottom 10 countries in R&D while india is 50-60 places higher than pak

            HaL published more patents in 2016 than 2 times cumulative sum of all patent published by all pakistani companies in 70 yrs.

            we ll prove u wrong again as we master & develop most subsystem of aeronautical engg by end of this decade while ur madrassa trained engg ll continue to assemble cheeni jf17 from imported knocked down kits.

          • Smoking a Tejas

            Ummmm I think you took it a little personally. I don’t think pakistan has an interest in reinventing the wheel for billions when it can get it cheap. And for all of india’s coveted expertise, it just went and bought 38 planes for 244 million each. I guess the local R&D ain’t quite up to snuff. And oh yeah, it’s just money so I know the tech transfer is around the corner while I blow billions on monkeys in lab coats.

          • MT

            rafale is 4.5gen aircraft better than any russian cheeni European fighter jet.

            india has just entered into 4th gen after having invested bill $on r&d in ladt 30yrs

            it is still few yrs away from developing engine,aesa radar & litening pods
            india is indeed paying too much bucks for rafale which includes spares support for a decade.

            But this deal ll help indian pvt sector learn and develop many 4th gen sub systems from 3bill $ offset policy.

            cheen got many tech from Israel lavi in last decades including old version of sam and radar technology.

            Of course these tech cmes in bits pieces so cheen and india both have capabilities to develop basic & grab knowhow of sophisticated tech from partnership.

            india is nt going to import any fighters post T50/Pak Fa

            probably from 2030 india ll be only dependent on engine and other 6th gen tech as india ratchet up r&d investment aided by 100 of indian pvt sector companies.

            say for eg drdo turbofan lab manufacturing 20 eighty KN tubofan over next 24months after 3decades of development & they gonna use 3d printing technology to reduce time.

            But any light wt multi roll fighter desires 95Kn so they ll approach that technology limit by 2025.

            Another eg
            A local south asian Gps systems ll cost approx 2bill $ but isro indian research org got that done in less than 400mill $ including launch and development of 7 satellites from local launcher.

            cheen may be subsiding cost of weapon to pak as it needs pak to continue using state terrorism under garb of cheeni gifted nukes to irritate india.

            But this makes pak vessel state of cheeni. u Need to beg and plead while u even had to import solid rocket of shaheen from chinese hexagon chemicals after dumping suparco missile in favor of cheeni integrated maal at Nescom

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