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Saab and Adani Group partner to promote Gripen in India

Saab and the Indian infrastructure company Adani Group announced that they have partnered to jointly promote the Saab JAS-39E/F Gripen multi-role fighter and other defence systems in India.

According to the joint press-release, the partnership aims to realize the manufacturing of Saab weapon systems – including the Gripen E/F – in India under New Delhi’s ‘Make in India’ initiative. This will occur through transfer-of-technology mechanisms conditioned on India selecting Saab products and services.

Saab and Adani Group also aim to promote the growth and integration of small and medium enterprises (SME) in Indian defence programs through their partnership. Adani Group hopes to support the creation of new manufacturing units and jobs as well as skills development in India.

The centerpiece of the partnership is the Gripen, which Saab is proposing for the Indian Air Force’s (IAF) potential requirement for a new single-engine fighter to supplant its legacy MiG-21 and MiG-27 fighters.

India’s Ministry of Defence (MoD) is expected to submit request-for-information (RFI) bids to Saab and its competitor Lockheed Martin for the Gripen E/F and F-16 Block-70, respectively. The MoD had forwarded expressions-of-interest for single-engine fighters in November 2016.

The single-engine fighter bid will be undertaken through the MoD’s new “Strategic Partnership” program. With Adani Group as its Indian partner, Saab will agree to commit to sourcing the majority (i.e. 70%) of the Gripen from India should the IAF select it over the F-16.

Likewise, Lockheed Martin partnered with Tata Advanced Systems Limited (TASL) in June to promote and co-manufacture the F-16 Block-70 in India. Prior to the fighter bid, Lockheed Martin and TASL partnered to manufacture subassemblies for the C-130J/LM-100J and Sikorsky S-92 utility helicopter.

Saab has also been overt about linking India to its global supply chain. The Economic Times quotes Saab’s CEO Håkan Buskhe for stating that Gripens for third-party users would be exported from India, providing the potential for economic gain to India above any offset or co-investment offer.

In the joint press-release, Saab also alluded to promoting solutions for other Indian requirements:

“The collaboration would also include projects, programs and technologies of national importance to India. The parties plan to develop the relationship into a structure of joint ventures in India for execution of the programs, including the single engine fighter program, in order to support the Make in India policy and exhibit the parties’ long-term commitment to be jointly successful.”

Saab would have an interest in bidding for the Indian Navy’s Project 75I-class conventional submarine and carrier-borne fighter requirements. Although the Strategic Partnership model may restrict Saab and Adani Group to fulfilling only one of the designated fields, Saab/Adani Group will have several opportunities to engage with Indian requirements should they lose out on the single-engine fighter bid.

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  • by Steve
    Posted September 4, 2017 2:39 am 0Likes

    Get ready for 10 years of negotiations and another 10 before final induction…Pakistan will be flying 4 squadrons of J-31 by then.

  • by Steve
    Posted September 4, 2017 4:29 am 0Likes

    Some bad news for our neighbours. This may effect contract negotiations as corruption is always an issue in third world countries:

  • by pallab hazarika
    Posted September 4, 2017 6:06 am 0Likes

    Fly j20 instead

  • by MT
    Posted September 4, 2017 6:16 am 0Likes

    Adani can’t make a screw. They are only going to fail Saab bidding. Indian defence establishment ll never support kit assembled Gripen by these money minded Adani.

    Tata has experience of radar, composites, avionics nd precision manufacturing. They are definitely getting the contract if Lockheed Martin is ready to license 1 big technology (engine/radar/ in India

  • by Lasit
    Posted September 4, 2017 6:17 am 0Likes

    on the lighter side .. you don’t beg and pay bribe .. you need to have money to pay bribe 🙂

  • by MT
    Posted September 4, 2017 6:19 am 0Likes

    HaL is manufacturing 8tejas in 2017 and they ll ramp up the order to 16 from 2020 with aesa version.

    J31 is many yrs away from operational license. Pak isn’t getting any of them with current budget sizes

  • by Lasit
    Posted September 4, 2017 6:22 am 0Likes

    you can be a standup comedian.

    you missed out the to talk about 10 squadrons of T-70 X-wing, 2 squadrons First Order Dreadnought, all from the Star Wars. all the future PAF pilots are getting trained by Anakin Skywalker himself.

    India is definitely doomed 🙂

  • by Headstrong
    Posted September 4, 2017 7:56 am 0Likes

    While corruption is still definitely an issue, India has actually been improving and is the least corrupt in the region. Report from Transparency International as of Jan 2017

  • by Steve
    Posted September 4, 2017 9:03 am 0Likes

    No no, we don’t need all that stuff. That’s your 56’er desires. We are rationalising to J-31, F-16, and JF-17.

  • by Jigsaw
    Posted September 4, 2017 9:39 am 0Likes

    I guess Pakistan didn’t make it to top because majority of the money earned in bribes and corruption is loaded in brief cases in “cash” and flown out of the country on daily basis. India seems to have a larger problem due to its population and the problem seems widespread in general population, Pakistan must be on top if you consider the top level corruption committed by the politicians and govs in Pakistan. The last two heads in 10 years have basically screwed the whole country singlehandedly and transferred billions in USD to every country they could basically point a finger at on the map. I’m pretty sure Pakistan beats India when it comes to gov corruption and money laundered out of Pakistan at least in last 10 years, thanks to Zardaris and Sharifs.

  • by Jigsaw
    Posted September 4, 2017 9:55 am 0Likes

    True. Considering India’s maturity in aviation, it will take ages for LM or SAAB to train Indians to start assembling those high tech planes with 50% independency. And then to assemble, followed by testing, induction, and deployment in suitable numbers. And if by any chance, both of these “rejected” planes under MMRCA get selected, you can add another 10 years to that.

  • by Steve
    Posted September 4, 2017 9:57 am 0Likes

    Too heavy and expensive. More suited for long range strike. J-31 will suit us better as we have the adversary next door.

  • by Steve
    Posted September 4, 2017 9:58 am 0Likes

    Lighter side too. We have 3.5 fathers who will pay for us, as you keep saying a million times remember lol

  • by Steve
    Posted September 4, 2017 10:00 am 0Likes

    Good for you. My link is the latest report.

  • by Headstrong
    Posted September 4, 2017 11:15 am 0Likes

    Good for you – all of 1 and a half months later 🙂
    The TI report is far more comprehensive.

  • by Lasit
    Posted September 4, 2017 11:23 am 0Likes

    I heard that J-31 can be produced in popcorn machines. so what all PAF needs is to install few Popcorn machines in PAC kamra, and ka boom – you have daily doses of J-31.

    somehow i was taking few of you as serious defense news enthusiast, but my mistake..

  • by Lasit
    Posted September 4, 2017 11:26 am 0Likes

    sugar daddies are good for short term relationships, but the problem will arise when you will have nothing “new to offer”

  • by Steve
    Posted September 4, 2017 11:41 am 0Likes

    My post is a LOT closer to the truth than your facetious nonsense.

  • by Steve
    Posted September 4, 2017 11:42 am 0Likes

    Agree the two poisonous families have ruined the country. Unfortunately our clueless public can’t stop electing them. They keep coming back from the dead like zombies, or NRO’s, charters of democracy, and other such nonsense. The country arguably broke up because of greedy politicians who could not put the country before their own throne.

  • by Steve
    Posted September 4, 2017 11:47 am 0Likes

    That’s a bit unlikely as historically America has not transferred critical technologies to anyone except possibly the Brits or Israel. Even Cameron had to personally intercede with Obama to allow F-35 to be serviced in the U.K. India is not white or Christian/Jewish, and unfortunately in the real world these thing still matter, protestations of being secular notwithstanding. America does not need Indian money either.

  • by Gopal Das
    Posted September 4, 2017 11:48 am 0Likes

    By this time Pakistan will be a full fledged Chinese colony. From GB to Gwador, China has planned its industrial set up manned by their own people with scanty participation of PAK people. Probably they will get the job of a security guard. India has to think in respect of China.

  • by Headstrong
    Posted September 4, 2017 11:54 am 0Likes

    This is a good website. Unfortunately, a few here have turned it into a battleground by constantly spouting anti-India stuff, regardless of the context of the issue being discussed. For some reason, religion also finds its way here all too often. These people can’t let go of the past…

  • by Steve
    Posted September 4, 2017 12:31 pm 0Likes

    The Forbes article also references a new TI study. I suggest you read it before commenting.

  • by Steve
    Posted September 4, 2017 12:32 pm 0Likes

    We have always had long term allies and friends. I notice you are choosing to be facetious but I suppose you cannot do any better lol.

  • by Jigsaw
    Posted September 4, 2017 12:36 pm 0Likes

    Are you trying to be funny?

  • by Jigsaw
    Posted September 4, 2017 12:40 pm 0Likes

    Don’t forget the Indian trolls spouting anti-Pakistan hatred and taunts that you keep upvoting and supporting.

  • by Steve
    Posted September 4, 2017 1:01 pm 0Likes

    …Says the voice of sagacity and reason. Your past posts bely that image sir. Just please scroll through the last 2 months or so of your posts and see. We have almost always only responded to Indians attacking Pakistan, it’s people, military, and industry. Please don’t use ridicule and sarcasm, and denigrate Pakistan. Give respect and you will get respect. You or your colleagues call it H&D in a degrading manner unfortunately. There is also a ‘kitchen’ proverb that I won’t use.

  • by Steve
    Posted September 4, 2017 1:08 pm 0Likes

    Mr. Lasit in the past you have occasionally made sense, but that unfortunately is beneath even you…

  • by Headstrong
    Posted September 4, 2017 2:10 pm 0Likes

    I did. The TI part of it mentions bribery. I’m sure you understand that corruption is far more than just that. Which is why I referred you to the far more comprehensive TI report on the TI website.
    When the full report for ‘Corruption’, which is what you began your comments with, appears, we’ll know where who stands. For now, we have the latest report which I helpfully gave a link to 🙂

  • by Headstrong
    Posted September 4, 2017 2:12 pm 0Likes

    Only in response. You’ll recall an occasion when I backed off when I went over the line. At that time, I did think that you were a reasonable commentator.
    I fully agree with Lasit on this one.

  • by Headstrong
    Posted September 4, 2017 2:17 pm 0Likes

    I’ve challenged you in the past and I challenge you again. Please point out a single post of mine to prove your point. You have either not responded or said that you didn’t mean me specifically. If you want to accuse me of anything, have the grace to provide evidence.

    You keep coming up with some bizarre abbreviations which you ‘credit’ Indians with using – in the past you’ve said IM, which I’ve never seen anyone else using. Asked you to prove it – no response.

    Now you come up with another – H&D – which I have no clue what it means. You again ‘credit’ me with using it. Please point out where I have done so – when, in fact, I don’t even know what it means!

    In fact, everything you’ve written above proves exactly what I’ve said.

  • by Lasit
    Posted September 4, 2017 2:30 pm 0Likes

    Seeing your comments, i was trying to match up to you

  • by Milind Naik
    Posted September 4, 2017 2:38 pm 0Likes

    Why don’t they start coaching classes to teach how to open & run such businesses which can earn lot of money for any individual by not only fooling Indian government but also whole country.
    Why they are killing indigenously developed technology in favour of inferior foreign technology, God only knows.

  • by Lasit
    Posted September 4, 2017 2:42 pm 0Likes

    @steve, pls refere to the first two comments on the article and help me understand how those two comments were warranted in context to the topic.

    I will always make sense as long as there is effort to get into a logical discussion

  • by Lasit
    Posted September 4, 2017 3:00 pm 0Likes

    Only in the last article on JF 17, when you questioned about LCA Tejas’ status with IAF, i answered in detail. You conveniently avoided a reply.

    Your strengths seem to in sarcasm and trolling…

  • by Steve
    Posted September 4, 2017 4:04 pm 0Likes

    Those comments are clearly relevant and it’s unambiguous to everyone but Indians. If you can’t see that I really can’t help you. You may not like the direct style but that’s not something we need to worry about. The problem obviously is that you guys are hypersensitive to even a slightly negative comment about India, even if true and historically proven to be so. It does not sit well with your ‘shining India’ and ‘Modi is the greatest’ narrative, or should I say propoganda. You can’t have a discussion like that. Constructive criticism is healthy and if you want to be patriotic fanboys then don’t discuss anything with adversaries. Stick to BR, and criticise and ridicule to your hearts content. Please realise I’m being patient here in explained and deferential to the people running this website. I really don’t have to.

  • by Steve
    Posted September 4, 2017 4:11 pm 0Likes

    Man I’m not spending time to satisfy an anonymous guy. Look at your posts please and see how balanced and neutral towards Pakistan they are. Lol

  • by Steve
    Posted September 4, 2017 4:24 pm 0Likes

    If you can’t get them with aggression, try to get them by being ‘nice’ and ‘reasonable’ hahaha. We know all the tricks in the book and some that are not in it too. Well done for effort though Lol! Let’s stick to issues rather than trying to discuss personalities ok?

  • by Steve
    Posted September 4, 2017 4:32 pm 0Likes

    Do you need a better razor to split the hairs finer and not accept reality hahaha

  • by Jagdeep Singh
    Posted September 4, 2017 4:38 pm 0Likes

    Mrca2 is schdule to 2020-21. 4 quordrons of j31 just like pakistan is using 10 sq. Of su35 since 2009. Where is f31? Where is budget? Where is agreement? You are more fictional than reality, we would got rafales mk3 by possible in next 3 years. Tender process takes times take reference of Canada.
    I just knew you even imports steel now and rubber for tyres now.

  • by Jagdeep Singh
    Posted September 4, 2017 4:45 pm 0Likes

    Assembling? Its not JF17. Did you even had read the article? It clearly says Saab would manufavture Saabs gripens and India would be hub for his spare line.TATA is already supplier of boeing p8 parts globally. And yes we would have tot agreements on Aesa and other systems.

  • by Jagdeep Singh
    Posted September 4, 2017 4:53 pm 0Likes

    DOES AN PAkistabis TALK SENSE? When we was at rafale deal they were supposing to got Su35s, we already had signed the deal. When we are moving to Mrca2 they are now moved to J31. Where is j31? Isnt PLAAF would get deliveries of it first? Indian involvement in FGFA project is live. Did pakistan had joined the any of 5th gen project in reality on paper? No!.

  • by MT
    Posted September 4, 2017 6:04 pm 0Likes

    F16 isn’t 5th gen niche technology
    Lockheed has no clients for f16 as it shuts down fortworth factory so it needs Indian market.

    Ge does a business of 10 bill $ yrly in India with dozen of manufacturing capabilities for health care machines, locomotive, thermal power, electric grid, hydro turbines, wind power turbines so I see GE India manufacturing engine locally which ll avoid any IP related issues paving way for f16 sub manufacturing in india. Money for the deal can be only allocated from 2020 so there ll be 2-3yrs of tough negotiation

  • by mazhar
    Posted September 4, 2017 8:22 pm 0Likes

    Anyone knows how many air forces of the world flying Gripen, other than Sweden?

  • by Bilal Khan
    Posted September 4, 2017 8:33 pm 0Likes

    Czech Republic, Hungary, South Africa and Thailand.

    Brazil ordered the Gripen E/F.

  • by Headstrong
    Posted September 5, 2017 12:09 am 0Likes

    I’m certainly not the one bringing in personalities. Maybe you should get over the tendency to attribute many things to many people, and then back off when challenged, with nothing to show to back up your claims? Maybe you should desist with your tendency to spout anti-India and anti-Hindu stuff (which for you is one and the same) in comments which have nothing to do with the issues being discussed?

  • by Headstrong
    Posted September 5, 2017 12:10 am 0Likes

    I’ve looked, ‘Steve’. I still can’t find them. Maybe you couldn’t too? Which is why you always duck every challenge. Typical…

  • by Headstrong
    Posted September 5, 2017 12:20 am 0Likes

    Not at all. Just be mindful that when you post links, there are others out there which may prove you wrong 🙂

  • by Jigsaw
    Posted September 5, 2017 1:48 am 0Likes

    Still am. You just need to be reasonable here as well. I’ve seen a lot of indians trolling here, the one you agree with, including.

    Since you were complaining, what’s your thoughts on this thread?

  • by Jigsaw
    Posted September 5, 2017 2:03 am 0Likes

    Oh i’m sorry did i break little miss muffet’s heart there by not replying YET AGAIN to a never-ending defence of a 35 year failure? Or did i break your little heart with not feeding you with the sweet lies you’re so used to consuming from indians media about India’s defence capabilities? It’s called bitter truth and you’ll just have to suck it up. You can’t ask me to agree to your fabrications and you’ll just have to face the fact that you are just another indian who feels insecure the moment he’s reminded of his failures – and there’s no denying there are plenty on your plate.

    I’ll just say it out loud. India’s defence industry is a failure which makes it the largest importer of weaponry in the world. For all i see, it will remain that way for decades to come. LM has said this one itself, it will take years for them to train indians to start assembling those machine because guess what, it ain’t a juicer!

  • by Jigsaw
    Posted September 5, 2017 2:08 am 0Likes

    Exactly my thoughts.

  • by Jigsaw
    Posted September 5, 2017 2:13 am 0Likes

    You can’t. Be it something of technicality or otherwise. That’s because you can’t take any form of criticism and you never criticise Indian policies. For all, you are a typical Indian. An everyday ram prakash yadav. You only come here to put up a sorry defence for own failures and troll when that does not work.

  • by Jigsaw
    Posted September 5, 2017 2:19 am 0Likes

    They’re not used to being confronted and that is the whole problem here. Here’s the issue at hand, in a nicer way said by LM.

    Firstpost: Break it down for us, what does it take to build an F-16 in India along with a local partner?

    Lockheed: The F16, as with other aircraft, has a huge supply chain. We have pieces and components coming in from multiple companies – think of it as similar to a car’s supply chain. Add to this a workforce that’s already trained and they’re able to execute in total sync with the supply chain. We need to get all of the “long lead” items in, do the final assembly and check and delivery – so each plane takes 3 to 4 years. Having said that, a company that’s starting from scratch will have to come up on a learning curve. In the beginning, they might take longer and that is natural. We’ve done this kind of work in the past in multiple countries. So we would like to start in India with a company that can come here, learn from us and go back and start assembly, then go into component production and then into detailed assemblies. We take a crawl-walk-run approach.

    FP: Where do you start, what’s the first thing you would have to do?

    Lockheed: In the end, this will be a government to government agreement. The first several aircraft will be delivered from the US production line. It starts off with getting the user (say, Indian Air Force) to become familiar with the aircraft, figure out if there are any special systems that need to be going on to that aircraft…and simultaneously training the right set of people, do the tech transfer, tooling set-up, they will need the right sort of buildings, runway facilities so there is a seamless transition from aircraft being delivered from the US to aircraft being delivered from India. So we would have people from the US in India and vice versa.

    You may have heard the term transfer of technology (in the context of the recent tweaks in India’s defense procurement) – there is a lot of production technology that has to be learnt. Building fighter aircraft is a highly specialised skill set – very different from manufacturing cars or even helicopters which a company like TASL may have some experience with.

  • by Jigsaw
    Posted September 5, 2017 2:31 am 0Likes

    I don’t think you understand anything going on here. If SAAB is manufacturing when what oranges and lemons is Adani going to be peeling? Also, SAAB is not a “he”. It’s a vendor.

    And did you see the problem here as an Indian? Your only problem is with the word “Assembling”. How dare you call us great indians “assemblers”. Get this right. You will be assembling F-16s or Gripens in factories after getting training in US to do that. A lot of tech in F-16 and Gripen will come directly from overseas, such as Engines and radars and other critical technology, even with that technology transfer agreement – nothing will be handed over in a plate with a steak or butter chicken if you prefer, to you.

    For all I see, your little egos will have you keep importing everything from abroad for centuries to come, because your mindset is all screwed up.

    Read this before you sulk over it now, and focus where it says “10 years” – because that is exactly what ticked you guys off.

    But, is a 100% ‘Make in India’ Gripen fighter jet possible?

    Initially no, eventually yes, believes Rajvanshi. “Since the country is starting afresh, we cannot be too hard on the OEM (Original Equipment Manufacturer) as well. We need to come up with a practical solution. The roadmap should lead us to indigenisation, but it will not start on Day 1. We have to look at the road map over 10 years…this is not going to happen as soon as we get the order or in the first lot that comes out of the facility,” Rajvanshi says.

  • by Jigsaw
    Posted September 5, 2017 2:36 am 0Likes

    And you learnt that from your daily visits to Indian media or someone shouting it to your ears on the only TV in your village, I suppose?

  • by Jigsaw
    Posted September 5, 2017 2:51 am 0Likes

    If you pay heed to statements coming out from SAAB and LM, they’re basically saying the exact same thing besides laughing at your current (in)capabilities, but i guess you’d prefer hearing the lies being told on alternative Indian media. After all, didn’t you Indians so fiercely participate in MMRCA 1.0 and thought how it would change future of Indian aviation and military for all ages to come. Guess you’re back to square one here.

  • by Jack More
    Posted September 5, 2017 3:29 am 0Likes

    Well you can see these 2 on every india related news trolling india.

  • by Steve
    Posted September 5, 2017 3:37 am 0Likes

    $10B is nothing in the greater scheme of things. We shall see. If USA hand over single crystal blade tech to India on a plate that will be a historic first ever in the world of a superpower transferring an important core technology to a country who is not even a formal ally and shares almost nothing historically. Except for a falsely advertised adversarial relationship with China which btw everyone can see through what can India offer? The Doklam drama was probably part of a clever scheme which US saw through. On a global scale in realpolitik ‘democracy’ especially India’s dysfunctional one is not a factor at all. Japan shares a lot more and has much larger trade and they were not given this. Unless you are saying that Indians are God’s chosen people and the whole world owes them a favour it is very very unlikely. Hugging won’t help either (sorry could not resist ;)). Read the latest article especially the link which Bilal had helpfully provided, on this website to see how complex the process of manufacturing is. China is very close and now will only look for consistency in manufacturing, and quality improvement.

  • by Steve
    Posted September 5, 2017 4:40 am 0Likes

    Do you think anyone cares about your ‘challenges’ lol. You have got a talking problem man. Don’t know when to stop…typical Indian.

  • by MT
    Posted September 5, 2017 5:01 am 0Likes

    Ge India is owned by Ge so they are the ones who ll be manufacturing SCB in India.

    Well India have developed 1st /2nd gen of SCB technology but lagging behind on superalloys. Ge404 uses 2nd gen of SCB which are 80era technology.

    But handling combustion instability nd power efficiency require decades of effort which we can speed up with consultancies from French and Russian.
    Snecma is already working with GTRE to improve Kaveri 80kN engine into 90s KN with afterburner as part of rafale 50% offset deals.

  • by Headstrong
    Posted September 5, 2017 5:02 am 0Likes

    Look who’s talking ?

  • by Steve
    Posted September 5, 2017 6:01 am 0Likes

    You’re on fire man! Salud!!

  • by Steve
    Posted September 5, 2017 6:05 am 0Likes

    That’s very insightful. I think my estimate of 20 years was optimistic! Thanks for a great find.

  • by Steve
    Posted September 5, 2017 6:13 am 0Likes

    Err… India is called Hindustan isn’t it? As far as others are concerned in all aspects of policy or government etc. it’s one and the same. I only respond to trolling. I’m tired of this meaningless back and forth now.

  • by Headstrong
    Posted September 5, 2017 6:18 am 0Likes

    There are many trolls here, including some who you whole heartedly support.
    As far as this thread goes, obviously Adani has zero experience in defence manufacturing – as does Reliance. But everyone has to start somewhere. And, as you have yourself pointed out in the LM interview, ‘Having said that, a company that’s starting from scratch will have to
    come up on a learning curve. In the beginning, they might take longer
    and that is natural’. You’ve somehow managed to twist that statement to ‘laughing at your current (in)capabilities’. And someone was talking of trolling….
    I personally have more belief in Tata, L&T, Bharat Forge and Mahindra, all of which already have extensive defence manufacturing facilities.
    But Reliance and Adani have enormous amounts of money – and that helps.
    Obviously Saab and LM aren’t going to transfer key technologies. Even the Russians, who are much closer, don’t do that. Why would they kill their golden goose? That said, a number of other technologies can be absorbed, leading to increase in know how/ why, generation of employment and building up of a pool of technical expertise. That is not be sneezed at. Every country has begun in this manner – and, in a manner of speaking, it is a new beginning for India as well, as it is only now that the private sector is being given the opportunity to participate in defence manufacturing at such scales. DRDO et al have had some successes, but too few and far in between leading to a loss in confidence.
    Do not underestimate the Indian private sector. If given the opportunity, they can produce results.

  • by Headstrong
    Posted September 5, 2017 6:25 am 0Likes

    This is the root of your problem and you show it every time you comment. You just cannot fathom the fact that India is far larger than just being Hindustan. Too bad you don’t get it…

  • by Lasit
    Posted September 5, 2017 6:35 am 0Likes

    well your so called future fighter J-31 just inducted the second prototype is december, 2016. even by very aggressive chinese estimates, its not going into serial production before late 2019 or 2020.

    so there are many years in between now and the day PAF will have J-31

  • by Jigsaw
    Posted September 5, 2017 6:44 am 0Likes

    I can say it without a fraction of bias, what you said was entirely correct. SAAB and LM knows it. Their Indian partners know it. The world knows it. The ones shouting on this very page know it – it’s just the matter of accepting truth that’s giving fits. Current indian capacity is in shambles to be doing anything near exemplary in aviation. I mean Tejas is the “homegrown” stud, just recently Boeing canceled entire contract with HAL over what they call “poor quality of production”.

    I can only see the logistical nightmare these people are going to create, in their endless wisdom, for the nations depending on F-16s spares and orders and for themselves, should an F-16 production line shift to this country. Not only will the F-16s start crashing more but they will also start blaming it all back on LM and Americans for their poor training and technology – it’s just a matter of time. It’s all gonna unfold to our eyes. You might just see a Bollywood film on that too in due time.

  • by Lasit
    Posted September 5, 2017 6:45 am 0Likes

    with an economy 8 times that of yours and an defense budget 6 times that of yours, i am not sure whether any Indian is really scared of Pakistan.

    your phobia to get into a debate with hard facts is understandable. this is hereditary to the pakistanis and part of your gene.

    there is a famous saying in Sweden “one Elephant is not equal to one Rat”

  • by Lasit
    Posted September 5, 2017 6:55 am 0Likes

    for that matter you are that pakistani, for whom, every time you reach out to your pocket, people around you get scared suspecting whether or not you are reaching out to a trigger to blow yourself up…

  • by Jigsaw
    Posted September 5, 2017 8:07 am 0Likes

    Well now I could really whack you on that little economy and rat talk of yours but I guess those are your typical ending lines, so i’ll just let it go with this: You still come from a 4th world country.

    Every time you come here and end up being busted with your lies. Every time I call your bluff, back it up with facts you can’t refute, and you just have your sorry lines to call it a day. Call it a day.

  • by Jigsaw
    Posted September 5, 2017 8:13 am 0Likes

    Thank you and i guess we’re on the same page here for most part. As i said, somewhere Indians also know their current capacity and ugly realities of this play. Now we only need to wait and see how it actually plays out.

  • by Jigsaw
    Posted September 5, 2017 8:18 am 0Likes

    That’s called calling your bluffs but if you must take it as a slap, please do by all means. You are not, but I will make sure you get used to be held responsible for your lies as long as you choose to COPY and PASTE indian media fabrications directly, and then act like a sheep and expect others to also.

  • by Jigsaw
    Posted September 5, 2017 8:23 am 0Likes


    Can you please take a note on this one. Really I don’t want to get into this/his level of discussion, so i’ll just ask you here for help.

  • by Lasit
    Posted September 5, 2017 8:24 am 0Likes

    now the cutie pie seems to be hurt … but my dear, that a reality that you can’t change

  • by Abdul Rashid
    Posted September 5, 2017 8:35 am 0Likes

    Noted and dealt with.

  • by Jigsaw
    Posted September 5, 2017 8:35 am 0Likes

    Thank you, much appreciated.

  • by Jigsaw
    Posted September 5, 2017 8:54 am 0Likes

    Oops seems like your little heart is broken too.

    But…all that is aptly suited to Indians here, as well as realities. You got a problem, take it up with LM, SAAB, or your jingoistic media. Everything’s in black and white. For all I see you are a biased man but you like to talk high of yourself.

    As long as Indians will keep lying about facts, someone will keep exposing them. You can’t get away with lying all the time and everywhere. You’ll just have to digest this fact.

  • by Jigsaw
    Posted September 5, 2017 8:55 am 0Likes

    But I’ll change you for a fact that you will think a 1000 time before speaking any more lies here.

  • by ali amanat
    Posted September 5, 2017 9:11 am 0Likes

    Pakistan should expedite the induction process of a new 4 or 5th generation fighter aircraft after the new INDIAN up coming deals with SWEDISH and AMERICAN vendors for the purchase and local production of either of one aircraft recently short listed , the situation is changing rapidly and endangering for the PAF both in quality and quantity , western vendors are not willing to give you any aircraft its almost closed, PAF should TAKE EMERGENCY MEASURES to tackle it and start local r&d designing and development of 5th generation with the help of china and russia if possible close coordination with local vendors , investors and main academic institutions already working on systems give them confidence and money but with no interference with strict check and balance .

  • by Headstrong
    Posted September 5, 2017 9:26 am 0Likes

    Ok. So unless one absolutely agrees with your views, he’s biased and ‘talks “high” of himself’.
    Thank you for reverting to type ?

  • by Headstrong
    Posted September 5, 2017 9:59 am 0Likes

    Here’s one link that someone like you, who sets so much store by rankings, should find interesting
    It’s brand new (today’s news, in fact 🙂 ), from a newspaper that you would believe and even more relevant – after all, it is the products from universities that feed into the industrial complex, isn’t it?
    Enjoy 🙂

  • by Jigsaw
    Posted September 5, 2017 10:19 am 0Likes

    You don’t have to agree with me at all, but i guess you still did on whatever is actually relevant here. How you backtrack later on, is on your own.

  • by Jigsaw
    Posted September 5, 2017 10:25 am 0Likes

    Once again lies from across the border busted with statements from LM, SAAB speaking for proof. Now we all need to wait a decade or so to see it playing out.

  • by ali amanat
    Posted September 5, 2017 10:28 am 0Likes

    Oh Mr headspinning, its true India has strong economy freedom and access to the western technology ,you can buy off the shelf whatever you like but as for as indigenization is concerned after 70 years not even a single indigenous so-called INDIAN PRIDE weapon system has not produced all are licenced local production and failed systems like ARJUN main battle TANK 30 YEARS OF TIME FRAME BUT FAILED ,and LCA also over 30 years of period but still not cleared with israeli radar American engine french design and all western sub systems, AKASH SAM SYSTEM STILL FAILED please be realistic and no non sense talking like ( saas aur bahu) just fabricating and news paper quoting , need a mindful discussion .

  • by Jigsaw
    Posted September 5, 2017 12:05 pm 0Likes


  • by Steve
    Posted September 5, 2017 12:57 pm 0Likes

    That link is a REAL eye opener. Did not know that. They manufacture cabinets, doors, ramps and fairings for aircraft, which are really low tech, and manage to mess up that as well! So much so that Boeing took away production. And they say they manufacture turbofans and single crystal blade turbine blades. Unreal!

  • by Saptarshi Dasgupta
    Posted September 5, 2017 6:54 pm 0Likes

    Let us look at India’s requirement. IAF wants 42 squadrons for handling a two front war. 14 squadrons of 272 Su-30MKI (GETTING SUPER 30 AESA UPGRADES), 3 Mirage 2000-5 squadrons, 3 Mig-29 (upgraded), 6 Jaguar , 6 Tejas (40 MK1 and 83 AESA MK-1 ) and 2 Rafale squadrons make 34 squadrons. This still leaves 8 squadrons deficit. 6 of those(around 120) will come from Block 70 F-16/Gripen E make in india and 2 more rafale squadrons will be ordered along with 57 Naval Rafale (Twin engine make in india). These 8 new squadrons will comple 42 count. Now Jaguars will be replaced by Su-57 Indian version FGFA. Mig-29 /M2k to be replaced by AMCA.If AMCA is delayed India will get more Rafales of FGFA in long run.In a way IAF has a good plan carved out. Many people might say procurement will be delayed but mind you this is not congress government which delayed MMRCA and ignored national defence. HINDU BJP’s agenda is strong defence.

  • by Lasit
    Posted September 6, 2017 4:00 am 0Likes

    @mods .. you seem to have two different standards for the trolls from Pakistan and people responding to them

  • by Abdul Rashid
    Posted September 6, 2017 6:38 am 0Likes

    There are no two standards being applied. Comments are edited or deleted from all sides. I and Bilal discuss from time to time on how best to apply Quwa guidelines. We had been quite lenient recently. Following complaints, we have decided to apply the rules more strictly.

  • by Steve
    Posted September 6, 2017 8:29 am 0Likes

    Too right ?. But beg to differ on anyone calling us trolls ???. Sorry for emoticons but they convey concepts brilliantly! I think I’m going to give it a break. Only 2-3 Pakistanis and 4-5 Indian posters writing the majority of posts. Getting a bit boring as we are repeating ourselves. Just stick to pure technical I think. Need more posters, especially Turks and Chinese. Maybe a word with them on their forums may work.

  • by Abdul Rashid
    Posted September 6, 2017 9:58 am 0Likes

    We do see the odd Turkish input when Turkish-related articles are posted. The trouble might be not everyone is comfortable with English. I have been planning to learn the Turkish language like since forever. Once I get there (can’t be too difficult, can it? It sounds so Urdu at times), rest assured I will try to draw Turkish input on to Quwa.

  • by Steve
    Posted September 6, 2017 11:56 am 0Likes

    Excellent plan. Our previous president was fluent I hear!

  • by Lasit
    Posted September 6, 2017 12:45 pm 0Likes

    I was hoping to become a mod soon, but now the prospect seems to be push a bit in the future???

  • by Jigsaw
    Posted September 6, 2017 12:56 pm 0Likes

    You do realize that Pakistanis are not even allowed to participate in any kind of discussions on Indian forums. There is a blanket ban for Pakistanis. You are NOT the ones to be talking of different standards or any standards for that matter. You owe Pakistanis for the very freedom of speech you are permitted with. Impossible to come by for foreign voices on Indian forums. Also, i reported you for an extremely “low level” post in which you reverted to your usual Indian style attacks on Pakistan. I’m sure you deserved a ban for that, but that i up to the Mods to decide. Thank you.

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