Skip to content Skip to footer

Russia & India ink much-awaited S-400 long-range SAM deal

India has inked a much-awaited S-400 Triumf long-range surface-to-air missile (SAM) system purchase from Russia. According to Russia Today, an intergovernmental agreement (IGA) regarding the S-400 was signed during Prime Minister Narendra Modi’s visit to Moscow. Russia hopes to ink commercial contracts with India before mid-2017, which would enable the first S-400 systems to be delivered in 2020.

Under the IGA, the Indian Navy will also procure three Project 11356 frigates. Russia and India will also enter into a co-production partnership over the Kamov Ka-226T utility helicopter (TASS).

The S-400 Triumf is Russia’s marquee long-range SAM system and it is capable of engaging at a range of 120 to 400 km. Thus far, the S-400 has only been offered to China and India (and is on order from both).

Notes & Comments:

The Indian Ministry of Defence (MoD)’s Defence Acquisition Council (DAC) cleared the S-400 purchase in December 2015. At the time, the acquisition’s expected cost was set at $4.5 billion U.S. Alongside the also recently concluded purchase of 36 Dassault Rafale multi-role fighters from France, the S-400 will be one of India’s marquee acquisitions towards the end of this decade and the beginning of the 2020s.

However, even a stand-alone factor, the S-400’s introduction into South Asia is a genuine game-changer, one that will likely force Pakistan to adopt an asymmetrical defensive and offensive doctrine, especially in light of the S-400’s potential use to stifle Pakistan of accessing its own air space.

Show CommentsClose Comments


  • by GhalibKabir
    Posted October 16, 2016 9:10 pm 0Likes

    Hi Bilal and Co, Morning friends. my two cents. As a standalone, yes the S-400 will add a lot to the layer of air-defense systems in India. Also me thinks 5 battalions just not enough for the Western Theater. India needs much more inter-locked Air-Defense Network. That will mean more SPYDER MR-SAMs, land based Barak-8 and the S-400 besides the Pradyumna/Ashwin BMD/Long Range SAM.

    Separately, Pakistan will be helped as China will respond by selling better AESA radars and updated HQ-9 systems to PAF. I was talking the other day to some Americans who are knowledgeable on this sort of thing and they said the guidance systems, AESA radars of Chinese domestic make for the HQ LRSAM are catching up fast to western standards and in their opinion have surpassed or are equal to Russian technology.

    besides the S-400 what left me a bit confused was the Grigorovich class frigate acquisition considering the new 6700 ton PJ 17 class frigates in the works in India already 🙁

    Posted October 16, 2016 11:49 pm 0Likes

    Frigates are being acquired to fastly build up numbers. Both mazgaon and garden reach are busy with various projects. Yet what they are yielding is falling somewhat short because too many platforms have to retire.
    All p-17a frigates will join between 2022-2027.
    Three s-400 are enough for western border. From Gujarat to siachen we have a 3000+ km border but the aerial distance is less than 2000km.
    One system will be dedicated to ‘aksai chin to uttaranchal’ and another one to northeast.
    Alternate way of deploying the system can be like placing one each at the five life-line cities of Delhi, Mumbai, Bangalore, Hyderabad and Kolkata. This way they will cover greater parts of our own territory and act purely as air defence system.
    But when placed at borders with Pakistan s-400 can be truly called as ‘AIR OFFENCE SYSTEM’ because it can deny them their own airspace.
    There are news reports from non Indian sources that 6000 spare missiles will be part of the deal.
    It would be interesting to see what Pakistan comes up with.
    I feel china’s 6 s-400 units will be deployed mostly in the oceanic theatre to take care of Americans and japs.

  • by Shakeel
    Posted October 17, 2016 12:46 am 0Likes

    Unfortunately, the S-400 is game,set & match for India.The chinese HQ-9 is below par compared
    with S-400 – hence chinese purchased the latter from Russia. The military planners & the incompetent civilian leadership have misjudged the profound hatred of India for Pakistan’s existence. Whilst we are toying with the idea of purchasing a 4/5th generation aircraft, the indians have actually procured it.

    So much for credible defence posture. This words ‘are only used’ for public consumption.

  • by SS_IND
    Posted October 17, 2016 1:14 am 0Likes

    The S400 means India can at any given moment control deep inside Pakistan Airspace. With a large range and even capability to strike stealth fighters….this is more a strategic weapon than a conventional one…its among the best in the world..and integrated with the Ashwin, Prithvi, Brahmos, Barak 8, Akash and Pikanaka would for a true umbrella for India even for ballistic missiles. This also put Pakistans “Full Spectrum Deterence” into question. The ability of the S400 to bring down ballistic missiles. Also the Air borne approach of F-16s for nukes cannot be feasible anymore with the S-400.

  • by GhalibKabir
    Posted October 17, 2016 6:26 am 0Likes

    Some comments on multiple battalions..That many number of S-400 seems unlikely and almost impossible to deliver in a few years time even if the lines manufacture 24×7. So the possibility we need to give serious thought to is, India paying for its future SSN program R&D support from Russia plus minus some money for Kashalot/another Akula under the guise of S-400 payment.

    This dovetails into the thought process that India would take French help (kinda hard to imagine DCNS doing it…but 75-i may swing it to get some R&D) with sensors/quietening technology while getting R&D on the 190MWth/32 MWe OK type reactor to power the future SSNs.

    this makes for a logical conjecture as with the K-4 and K-5 the Arihant SSBNs will touch 7,000-8000 tons displacement and the SSNs India is likely to build with multiple missiles is likely to weigh as much as later Arihant class SSBNs to ensure power on patrols with endurance.

  • by SS_IND
    Posted October 17, 2016 6:53 am 0Likes

    India didnt spend 6 Billion USD to get an upgrade of the S300 (which India already has) The details are not out yet but mostly India would go for the 40N6 (400Km range) and 48N6DM (200 Km range, 4.8 mach) and the short range 9M96E2. India being the member of MTCR can but these missiles.

  • by Karly Johnston
    Posted October 17, 2016 7:25 am 0Likes

    That missile is not cleared for operations.

  • by SS_IND
    Posted October 17, 2016 7:37 am 0Likes

    India to get the 5 battalions in 2020. So by then the missiles are expected to be operational and there could be a follow on deal to develop S500 as a joint development.

  • by tyler durden
    Posted October 17, 2016 9:22 am 0Likes

    also bilal khan quwa -what is ur view on single-engine fighter rfi launched by India? your analysis plz

  • by Bilal Khan - Quwa
    Posted October 17, 2016 11:07 am 0Likes

    First article will be out tomorrow.

  • by SP
    Posted October 17, 2016 11:26 am 0Likes

    Modi government has been the best thing to happen to Pakistan for a long time. It has gone on a shopping spree to get good military hardware. This has upped the game for Pakistan. Pakistan must now get its act together and rise to the challenge if it wants to play with the big boys. Pakistan must involve all segments of society in meeting the challenges rather that to leave in to the short sighted men in boots with their limited world view, limited view of national interest, egoistical personalities, ad hocism and tunnel vision. Pakistan Army is a pampered army due to too much involvement in politics. I listened to recently how Pakistani generals in the 1960’s when visiting China used to mistake their generals for ordinary soldiers and order them to carry their luggage.

  • by Kashif Younis
    Posted October 17, 2016 2:21 pm 0Likes

    People of pakistan have seen that In spite off all military superiority india could not attack pakistan with its superior weapons in 1999. 2001 2008. 2016. All.major provocation.
    India will not be able to attack pakistan even in future with rafale or s 400. So stop wasting the money of.poor people. And let’s talk about Peace. Indian weapons are only bluff . Wars are never fought with weapons. They are fought with human determination to fight against hostile adversary

  • by Quraishi
    Posted October 17, 2016 2:58 pm 0Likes

    The only opssible solution I think possible now is for Pakistan to use force and knock out indias infrastructure and military installations term before these systems are operational.
    Otherwise seeing the pakistani economic situation soon there will be no match.
    Best possible solution now is to engage into a full war to knock out all industrial and other high value knowledge and construction sites.
    As once all the new purchases from India r operational, the gap will be too huge and almost no practical change of all our victory.

  • by SP
    Posted October 17, 2016 3:38 pm 0Likes

    Even in conventional war with nukes and missiles India cannot win in the land battles as it does not have the superiority to fight an offensive war against defensive forces. However India can with its air superiority inflict physical and psychological damage on Pakistan and Indian navy could make a good attempt to disrupt the sea trade of Pakistan bringing the country to a standstill and causing economic hardship to the country. You can talk about peace but you must always be ready for war, and the deterrence has to be maintained with India by maintaining a balance of force which can inflict heavy damage on India.

  • by Quraishi
    Posted October 17, 2016 4:36 pm 0Likes

    Emotions r good, but the should go with knowledge and logic, as is clearly mentioned in Quran and Hadith.
    This r not as simple as you see them or want to see them.
    There is no value to ones freedom.
    U have to see things in bigger global perspective, Pakistan has threat not only from India but a major and real threat from Iran.

  • by Manju
    Posted October 17, 2016 5:05 pm 0Likes

    It is like I am starting to earn well hence I am spending money on staying fit and safeguarding. My neighbour who is economically getting weak day by day is really getting worried because of my fitness.India doesn’t attack unless there is a strong reason and when we did last time in 1971 don’t you still remember?.

  • by Karly Johnston
    Posted October 17, 2016 6:22 pm 0Likes

    Expected to be… could be by 2020. That missile was supposed to be operational 6 years ago.

  • by GhalibKabir
    Posted October 17, 2016 9:00 pm 0Likes

    This reminds me so much of Christine Fair’s book on the Pak Army. if 1999 was not a loss then what is?, If this is the argument to be used, then it will condemn Pakistani awam to suffering forever. Every instance stated 1999, 2001, 2008, the cost of war was higher than the cost of political diplomacy. we are nations not gorillas to chest thump and fight at a whim. khuda ka shukar hai our Govts know where the line is,

    1999: Pakistan lost face and ruined its reputation and pays an economic price till today. the Pak Army did not have the decency to take back the bodies of NLI soldiers who bravely fought for it. you should see youtube for Musharraf’s calls from China. Disgraceful. Enemy or not, no shaheed sipahi deserves the treatment NLI got.

    2001: Musharraf was forced to accept on Nov.6, 2004 that cross border terror occured from Pak side of the LoC. See last few weeks Geo TV reports esp. Shamshad Ahmed’s interview, it will tell the truth through Pakistani mouths.. the diplomatic pressure mounted by India worked after 2.5 years but it had an effect. Except China and the OIC that makes nonsensical declarations of brotherhood, the country’s name suffered further

    2008: Pakistan suffers economically till today for letting Hafeez Saeed and Masood Azhar roam free. When all the emissaries of Nawaz visited global capitals, you know what was asked? aap Hafiz Saeed jaise afraad ko aise ghumne kyun dete hain?

    2016: When the Pak deep state is doing such a good job of tabahi in Pakistan, why should we do anything? Even if there was anything legitimate about Kashmiris struggles, this cross-border jihad with a nuclear overhang has buried it.

    Think for a minute, the very nuclear threat Pak gives in turn gives the Pak Army the perverse incentive to keep the civilian leadership in Pak from steering a saner course.
    nafrat karna bahut aasan baat hai. hum ek hi log hain..woh haqeeqat na mere kehne pe ya aap ke kehne pe badalne wala hai…have a good day

    Posted October 17, 2016 11:58 pm 0Likes

    The missile is fully operational. Russians are now working on 600km range missile for s-500. Without the 40n6 missile s-400 can’t have its name. And Russian’s are not fooling themselves by inducting 16 s-400 regiments. Without 40n6 missiles s-400 becomes s-300 PMU II.

  • by Mohsin E.
    Posted October 18, 2016 10:29 am 0Likes

    Anyone who thinks the S400 neutralizes Pakistan ballistic missiles, is living on some other planet. Ask the Russians how protected they feel right now from the US. Ask the Americans how protected they feel from Russian BMs, after billions spent over decades on useless “missile shields.” Then ask yourself, if would u actually risk triggering a nuclear exchange by trusting your own “shields”? There are no shields against the threat of nuclear holocaust possible with current levels of tech. In fact there probably never will be because you can always put a nuke on a truck and smuggle it across a border. So forget these fantasies about the S400 destroying Pakistani deterrence.

    The only way to neutralize a country’s deterrence is to compromise its safeguards and ensure the destruction of 100% of its warheads in one swift operation. Good luck with that.

  • by GhalibKabir
    Posted October 18, 2016 11:30 am 0Likes

    Agree. I think there are some unrealistic notions of BMD floating around. The S-400 Is a very long range SAM system. While It might have a limited BMD role and knock out a few subsonic cruise mussile, it is not going to be such help otherwise.

    It’s an awesome LRSAM system but a only limited BMD shield. This ‘magic Bullet’ solution does not exist.

  • by rtnguy
    Posted October 18, 2016 12:19 pm 0Likes

    Ballistic missiles cannot be intercepted by any technology as of now but S400 will make F16 and Babur/rad pretty much useless

  • by Mohsin E.
    Posted October 18, 2016 3:25 pm 0Likes

    “useless”, eh? LoL, that’s okay, we don’t really need Vipers and Cruise Missiles to defend against fictional “surgical strikes”

  • by Abdul Rashid
    Posted October 18, 2016 3:28 pm 0Likes

    Mohsin, S400 fair enough is not a shield against threat of nuclear holocaust but just a little question I have and I sort of know your view on this as we have discussed it before. Pakistan’s nuclear deterrent is effective and it will remain effective even after India deploys the S400 system but give India’s toying around with the idea of “limited war” under the nuclear threshold, do you thing the risks of Indian confidence to “try things” military will be any greater once they have significantly beefed up both their air defences (is “defence” spelt as “defense” in N America? My spellchecker is doing my head in!) and offensive capability with the acquisition of Rafales? The point I’m trying to get at is if the conventional balance between Pakistan and India shifts too much we could actually be heading closer to a nuclear exchange. Your thoughts please.

  • by Mohsin E.
    Posted October 18, 2016 4:17 pm 0Likes

    We should always assume the enemy is stupid enough to attack even when they aren’t capable enough to attack. That’s just a principle of preparedness, straight from Sun Tzu ‘never assume the enemy won’t attack’ (paraphrasing)

    The best course of action for us is to find innovative ways to beef up our defenses and counter-offensive capabilities without derailing our economy. (And no, buying SSBNs does not qualify as a valid counter to this! lolz)

  • by Abdul Rashid
    Posted October 18, 2016 4:55 pm 0Likes

    Now I wonder why you mention the SSBN……..not!

    Any ideas what these innovative defences would look like? Better still, any innovative ideas how to get humans to the nearest stars? We are unlikely to find an Einstein-Rosen Bridge this side of Eternity conveniently waiting to be discovered close to Saturn, as in the movie “Interstellar”. I don’t know if you read Sci Fi but I remember getting goosebumps while reading Poul Anderson’s 1970 book Tau Zero.

  • by MT
    Posted October 18, 2016 5:18 pm 0Likes

    1. SSBN is not piece of cake selling in market. From all account, making SSBN submarine is more difficult that making atomic bombs.

    India started their SSBN program in late 70’s
    It took 30 yrs to Develop Arihant SSBN & 2 decades to field Its SLBM(K-15 and K-4)

    Over all cost to R&D,setting up industrial capability & procurement of other subsystem cost India more than 7 bill$ over 30-40 yrs of time at today prices.

    2. S-400 is categorized as TMD- Theater missile defence with additional ability to bring down MRBM Ballistic missiles (range up to 3,500 km).

    Source: 9M96 =>has range of 120 KM and altitude of 30 KM have Load factor of more than 20 g at 30 km altitude, greatly increases the probability to destroy short to medium range ballistic missiles

    India is also moving forward with in home two layer BMD handling IRBM missile to range of 5000 KM which will progress at much faster rate once the govt hike the DRDO budget in coming years!

    ofcourse There are many counter ways to deter a shield but I reckon that Pak whose missile program still rely on chinese technology for (Old jet vanes model,navigation+guidance,solid rocket motors,INS) & fall short behind India by big margin;in missile development race will have real tough time maintaining balance in coming decade

    Pakistan is lagging in BM race by many significant milestones

    1. It has no tactical hypersonic missile as compared to K-15, Shaurya of india
    2. It has no r&D in Ramjet( supersonic) missile so there is limit to imported no of C series missile from cheen

    3. Pak doesnt even think of researching in scramjet & hypersonic technology!

    4. It has no credible space program. Pak missile program barely shows any improvement in technology. Shaheen series missile rocket motors have similar performance to Long march 1 rocket boosters engines

  • by MT
    Posted October 18, 2016 5:25 pm 0Likes

    Russian have tested S-400 many times against MRBM

    say for eg. 9M96 =>has range of 120 KM and altitude of 30 KM have Load factor of more than 20 g at 30 km altitude, greatly increases the probability to destroy short to medium range ballistic missiles

    S-400 is merely borrowing Russian ABM missiles which has been protecting moscow since 2005 against ICBM.

    Lets suppose that S-400 have hit ratio of MRBM with 0.6-0.75. 2 shots will make it statistically as high as 97+%

    If India intends to use S-400 against Pakistan, under scenario that Pak barely have 100-150 BM, < 100 Cruise missiles; S-400 would perform far better

  • by GhalibKabir
    Posted October 18, 2016 8:50 pm 0Likes

    If I was a PN Admiral, I will focus on what is being done already, that is coastal/EEZ centric defensive 9-12 SSK LIB/AIP fleet covering the mouth of the Hormuz till Gujarat-Sindh maritime border and then rely on MPA like the P-3 and a mix of ASW helos, corvettes & long range frigates….

    @disqus_GfShjhCzln:disqus , @mohsin_e:disqus was just making light hearted remarks my friend, there is no need for you to respond so hard and I will tell you this about ABM, the Chinese whose missile tech is no slouch to the Russkies are struggling with ABM, Mohsin knows a thing or two about what he says and is worth listening to. his remarks about stupidity are spot on as no one entity is ‘tekedar’ of ‘bewakoofi’, of course unlikely any Govt of India is going to be so silly, but to say that is not at all possible is not logical.

  • by GhalibKabir
    Posted October 18, 2016 8:57 pm 0Likes

    a more appropriate way of putting it would be, the S-400 if used in an ‘offensive posture’ on the border will make F-16 sorties tougher but not impossible and there is no way S-400 or any magic weapon going to guarantee even >50% kill rate of cruise missiles assuming 50% is the beginning of ‘useless’ territory.

    Does it make Pak Army need more offensive missiles ? likely yes, will it make PAF take more corrective measures to ensure F-16 sortie safety? yes but with unknown efficacy. the S-400 will be a terrific SAM but to say or assume the other side won’t take countermeasures to protect itself is illogical.

  • by Mohsin E.
    Posted October 18, 2016 9:43 pm 0Likes

    Yea, I have ideas, none that can be put into practice though cuz the physics isn’t there =/ But it doesn’t have to be some grand idea, just a few disruptive technologies would suffice for beefing up Pakistan’s posture.

    I wish I had time to read fiction but really dont… I watch sci fi movies though.

  • by Abdul Rashid
    Posted October 18, 2016 11:04 pm 0Likes

    Oh, for a second I thought you had ideas for travel to the stars until I read the rest of the sentence. I got all excited and then the goosebumps subsided. Never mind, maybe another day, eh?

  • by Mohsin E.
    Posted October 18, 2016 11:57 pm 0Likes

    Let’s just say that the tech I’m dreaming of is dual-use, i.e. the same tech may be used to totally dominate the opponent, while also colonize the galaxy 😉 but like I said, the physics just aint there for it, so it’s just scifi =/

  • by Mohsin E.
    Posted October 19, 2016 12:00 am 0Likes

    no worriez, my ‘hard’ response was directed to SS_IND, who claimed Pakistan’s deterrence is in question.

  • by Abdul Rashid
    Posted October 19, 2016 2:32 am 0Likes

    That’s better. The goosebumps are back now.

    Many a sci fi of yesteryear is fact today. Who knows, I might yet live long enough to someday pick a random (by then) colonized solar system, step aboard Starship Mohsin and blast off many light years way to seek new experiences and adventures? But a slight problem, at what times and in which direction would a Muslim face to offer Salah on the new planet? You need not answer that, Mohsin. It’s good one for the Pakistani Mullahs to figure out and fight over.

  • by Mohsin E.
    Posted October 19, 2016 8:01 am 0Likes

    lolz, well, first of all, I think we’ll need to overthrow the mullahs before such grand projects can begin 😉 if we can’t even get our act together on this planet, no point in spreading our parasitic genes all over the galaxy!! lolz

    and don’t keep your hopes high for a single human lifetime being enough to reach another star system. This is a project that will take place over many thousands of years, with drones being at the forefront of exploration. I doubt the speed of light limit is going to be broken… But there are other puzzles in physics that if cracked will help a lot.

  • by Abdul Rashid
    Posted October 19, 2016 9:13 am 0Likes

    To be honest, my subtle mullah reference was alluding to precisely that – the sheer improbability of a Pakistani-style mullahized spacefaring nation. Many years ago when I was still yet a passably handsome, dashing young man (not too far of it now either to be honest, depending on the time of the day) I got into an argument with a mullah at my local mosque. “Man on the Moon! Have you lost yours senses, son?”, he told me.

    I’m not giving up my hopes any time soon! I’m not letting the speed of light limit put a limit to my dreams. Circumvent, not break the speed of light.

  • by Mohsin E.
    Posted October 19, 2016 10:29 am 0Likes

    i totally get the personal desire to explore distant planets. But whats more important is exploring as a species. even with current technology we can start the colonization project with drones and/or multi generation space faring teams… we shouldnt hold that up just because the people who launch now wont personally get to see the destination.

  • by Abdul Rashid
    Posted October 19, 2016 12:47 pm 0Likes

    Sure, the search should not be held up just because there is no expectation of seeing the destination in our lifetime. All I’m saying is what today seems thousands of years away may not necessarily be that far away. 300 years ago who would have imagined the world we live in today.

    As for any “shortcuts” to the stars, I think I do realise by now you are scientific and a realist in your outlook so if the physics isn’t there for it, the physics simply isn’t there for it. Period. I just like to qualify that with a resounding YET! I’m a dreamer so I dream all the time. Hope springs eternal.

  • by IAF101
    Posted October 19, 2016 12:59 pm 0Likes

    Russia itself has 35 battalions of s400 and the system protects Moscow as well. Without the 40 N6 there is no point in the S400 which India will get in 2020

  • by IAF101
    Posted October 19, 2016 1:01 pm 0Likes

    The missile has been tested and validated numerous times by Russians. The Russian air rocket forces themselves conducted these tests and even NATO recognizes them as successful.

  • by IAF101
    Posted October 19, 2016 1:03 pm 0Likes

    WRONG. it’s most likely range of 250 “miles” which translates to 400 kms . Indian newspapers continually mess up these details.

  • by Karly Johnston
    Posted October 19, 2016 3:11 pm 0Likes

    It was a direct quote, India doesn’t use miles as a unit of measurement.

  • by Abdul Rashid
    Posted October 19, 2016 4:45 pm 0Likes

    My reading of Mohsin’s remark regarding assuming the “enemy is stupid enough to attack” is that is was a GENERAL remark emphasizing preparedness, not calling any particular government stupid. He even quoted Sun Tzu.

  • by Mohsin E.
    Posted October 19, 2016 5:04 pm 0Likes

    true, its always possible we find a way to make the physics work… well, not “always” but its possible that its possible lolz

  • by Mohsin E.
    Posted October 20, 2016 2:53 pm 0Likes

    p.s. @disqus_1Le3fDoWbw:disqus , I recently started a little ‘research blog’ on Islam, with some essays and posts on counter-doctrinal (controversial) topics you may find interesting. Check it out:

  • by Abdul Rashid
    Posted October 20, 2016 4:50 pm 0Likes

    Thanks Mohsin

    I would DEFFO find that very interesting. Back in the cold, cold North Sea right now though (a very spiritual experience looking out in to the vast, rough sea at the onset of sunset. Something typical mullahs just won’t grasp). Will go through the blog as soon as I’m safely back on terra firma. I have spent enough time of my life wrestling within myself, the mullahs and the society in general against controversial thoughts to not be interested. Would be even better to have a discussion forum where guys can exchange views, even if it is only open to limited people (to filter out the nutcases!).

    After a recent spate of slightly unsavoury discussions on Quwa, Bilal has kindly insisted I help keep the comments focused on to directly relevant technical or industry aspects of the topics being discussed. Although our space-faring discussions are fairly innocent, the re-focus is understandable given some slippages typical of Ind-Pak forums. Oh well, all I ever passionately wanted was to play some small role to propel humanity to the distant reaches of the Universe in every sense. I’m not giving up just yet! Something like:

    Sitaron se aage jahan aur bhi hain
    Abhi ishq ke imtehan aur bhi hain
    Tahi zindagi se nahin ye fizayen
    Yahan siakdon karwaan aur bhi hain

    Sadly, I have to largely depend on English translation.

  • by Mohsin E.
    Posted October 20, 2016 5:02 pm 0Likes

    yea bro i know how u feel lolz, totally. btw i havent been following the threads recently, so im not sure which arguments here ur referring to. i bet the current climate after the “surgical strikes” has heated things up quite a bit lolz. ill also keep this in mind while posting here, dont wanna fan any flames.

    but some silver linings as well, seems like membership is growing steadily, with some good folk like Ghalib sahib joining the ranks of discussion. Obviously as the members grow ull need to deal with more trolls as well. im sure u and bilal can keep a handle on it though.

  • by Abdul Rashid
    Posted October 20, 2016 5:19 pm 0Likes

    Yes, I too mentioned the growth of membership to Bilal and the quality of a lot of the input is excellent too even if some opinions inevitably differ. I personally attribute the sudden growth in users to the fact Bilal has recently given more attention to the Indian military. The site now has a greater appeal to a population 5 times larger than Pakistan’s (or thereabouts). That is all great.

    Ghalib, like you, is a Quwa “Trusted User”. His comments are immediately and automatically posted without waiting to be moderated. As far as I know he is our first Indian on the list.

  • by Abdul Rashid
    Posted October 21, 2016 4:28 am 0Likes

    I decided to have a quick read last night. The intended “quick” read quickly turned into an absorbing hour or two until various alarms and alerts on the instruments abruptly ended my reverie and compelled me to re-focus my attention on the work I am out to carry out in the North Sea. I do have a tendency to need re-focusing at times. Just ask Bilal. Still, I’m not too bad comparatively. I glanced towards my colleague on the job. Found him slumped in his seat, lightly snoring.

    Honestly, reading thru some of your content it was like I was looking in a mirror, seeing my own image reflecting back at me. Unlike you, I do not have very much in the way of Islamic study behind me. My Arabic and Urdu reading skills are rudimentary at best (my spoken “Urdu” is in a class all it’s own too – combination of 90% Punjabi-Mirpuri-English delivered in a fusion of heavy Scottish-Central England-Norwegian accent). The point is, our backgrounds are very different, so the feeling of mirror image of my own self in your writing is, well I don’t know quite how to express it, a surreal experience.

    I once heard a speech by some mullah (yes, there are some worth listening to) who mentioned the state of something he called “fitrah Muslims” and that any human can be one regardless of “born” Muslim or not. Something to do with an internal moral compass that compels all humans towards righteousness or if not compel them towards it, at least makes them conscious of the “true heading”. Give the huge mismatch between your seemingly well-structured, comprehensive Islamic study and my patchy, confused as-good-as-nothing grasp of the same, all I can speculate (I guess you don’t much like the word “speculate”!) is that this feeling of reflection, mirror-image, the commonality of our views stems from the fact “your” and “my” Islam is both “fitrah”-based. Islam stripped of all the baggage it has become loaded with over the years.

    Henceforth, for this topic and reaching the stars (or are the two essentially the same subject? (Have you noticed I write an awful lot in brackets?)), I will contact you from within your own blog. This will avoid hijacking of Bilal’s defence forum for non-related material.

  • by Mohsin E.
    Posted October 21, 2016 5:01 am 0Likes

    =) Glad you liked it. Bilal has also read it, look forward to discussing these topics with you both over there. I’m really happy that there are others ‘like me’ out there, cuz it always seemed like i was a total anomaly haha.

    Regarding language issues, I dont know Arabic either, and i’ve forgotten how to read Urdu, which is why I listed the English language tools and resources there so as to help people like you and me both. There are ways to decypher the root verbs but obviously it takes work. I’ll encourage readers to verify instead of trusting anything I (or anyone else) posts. Also, I wouldn’t say my studies on the subject are ‘comprehensive’ by any means… But in the essays (there’s 3 of them so far) I’ve cited enough secondary scholarly sources to back up the conclusions and premises that would be sufficient for any academic essay. The point is merely to disseminate stuff I’ve learned and encourage the reader to proceed on doing their own research… basically, to start questioning official dogmas and doctrines. I’m sure they will discover angles that I haven’t even thought of.

    Anywayz, yea, let’s discuss the rest over there and not distract from the issue at hand here: The S400 acquisition. I did ask my cousin in the PAF about this, he said that Sargodah is safe, but Lahore is a problem now. I really hope the PAF starts investing in kamakazi drones big time now and starts thinking about applying swarm tactics.

  • by Salman Khan
    Posted October 21, 2016 11:35 am 0Likes

    Americans and Japs?

  • by AMAN
    Posted October 22, 2016 5:00 am 0Likes

    Your programs take so much time –
    now look at china-
    Type 092 SSBN = program started in 1978 and commissioned in 1987 with SLBM = (JL-1).

  • by MT
    Posted October 22, 2016 9:41 am 0Likes

    JL-1 was false SLBM. It never really worked

    Look at more reliable sources. Type 092 SSBN were much inferior to current Arihant class. They nver became operational. Some say that it was such dud that it could not go above 5-10 nautical miles speed.

    Why did China decommission type 92 in 10 yrs? because it was not a real SSBN. Its reactor failed in few yrs.

    Quote: According to a 2011 US Department of Defense, the operational status of the JL-1 was “questionable”.[1]

    Type 92 have 58 MW turbine as compared to 83 MW for Arihant

    If thermal efficiency of steam turbine is 30% then it come around
    16 MW for Type 92 and 25 MW for Arihant! The nos for other three Arihant class(INS Arindham:S3,S4,S5) will slightly rise from 25 MW to 30 MW

    Just imagine 16 MW is too low. INS arihant is treated as tech demonstrator by western expert although its reactor fo 83 MW is comparable to INS Vikrant 100 MW gas reactor for the aircraft carrier & it needs refueling after 15-17 yrs almost similar to Type 94

    Arihant is comparable to Chinese Type 94 although its lighter,sleeker and have smaller reactor but its acoustic signature is at par with type 94 as it borrows richer features of akula class 1 submarine & its design is influenced by charlie class which is at par with Type94 in most of technology.
    There is enough evidence on internet to compare Arihant signature with Type 94. Both are noisy as compared to western, Russian Akula I,II and, Yaseen class & have similar level of noise in Db scale.

    INS Arihant is operation with K15 and K-4 series of missiles which has range up to 3500 KM the later 3 submarines of Arihant class will be able to launch K-5 for range up to 6000+Km which will be full fledged ICBM with MIRV capability

    Coming back to HEU, Arihant uses up to 30-40% enriched fuel which allow it to remain active for 15+ yrs without any refueling

    Type 94 is superior to Arihant with heavy design, more powerful reactor and its have full ICBM JL-02.

    Lastly: Next submarine INS arindham already got its modified nuclear reactor installed. It is due for release in 2018. other 2 submarines hulls are being built currently

    India is late if compared to China as they have big fabrication and industrial capability. But we recently have come up big with nuclear reactor fabrication and rank among top 4 forgers in world after US,China,Russia ahead of UK,South korea

  • by Abdul Rashid
    Posted October 22, 2016 5:27 pm 0Likes

    I like your display picture, Aman!

  • by AMAN
    Posted October 23, 2016 9:28 am 0Likes

    Thanks Abdul !!!!
    Abdul you are a worthy friend !!!!
    Please tell Bilal for a new article because it’s been 3 days and no new article. I am waiting for a new one!!!!!

  • by Abdul Rashid
    Posted October 23, 2016 10:47 am 0Likes

    New article please, Bilal, lol.

  • by AMAN
    Posted October 23, 2016 11:52 am 0Likes

    Thanks Abdul !!!

Leave a comment