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This Week in Defence News
March 30, 2017

This Week in Defence News

11 March 2016

Every Friday, Quwa offers coverage and short-form analysis of various news topics. It can be a challenge to offer in-depth reporting for every interesting news piece, so we invite you, our readers, to engage and share with us your knowledge and insights on issues and topics that interest you the most.

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Pakistan F-16 sale crosses through Senate, but subsidies are on hold

In a 71-24 vote, the U.S. Senate has opted to let the Pakistan F-16 sale (of eight Block-52+ for $700 million) move through, but the Foreign Military Financing (FMF) element was put on hold.

The vote was called by Senator Rand Paul, who argued that the sale should not go through on account that Pakistan was not firm enough in its support of U.S. interests in terms of Afghanistan.

Although the sale passed, the FMF component, which would have covered almost half of the sale, put on hold. Senate Foreign Relations Chairman Sen. Bob Corker and Sen. Ben Cardin of Maryland put a hold on the FMF in hopes of looking to “encourage behavior changes” in Pakistan.

Corker was referring to having Pakistan intensify its campaign against the so-called Haqqani-network along the Afghan-Pakistan border.

However, Corker still believed that an actual sale of F-16s should continue, otherwise Pakistan would likely pursue alternatives, which could reduce U.S. leverage in Islamabad.

In the absence of FMF, it is unclear how many of the new F-16s the Pakistan Air Force (PAF) will procure. According to Sartaj Aziz, the PAF had hoped to acquire 18 additional new-built F-16s, but funds “saved” from previous FMF installments only permitted eight.

It is possible that the PAF was counting on fresh FMF support as a means to push for another batch of F-16s in the short-term. Given the fact that the F-16s are a key foreign policy tool for the U.S. in its efforts to maintain its relationship with Pakistan, it is unlikely that FMF for the F-16s will be blocked indefinitely.

Dassault still committed selling Rafale fighters to India

According to Dassault chairman Eric Trappier, the company is in the “final phase” of its negotiations with India over the sale of 36 Rafale multi-role fighters.

Price was the stumbling block ahead of a finalized sale, but Dassault is hopeful that India will not only order the 36 Rafale fighters, but that they would be an initial batch.

If the Indian Air Force (IAF) were to order another 90 aircraft, Dassault would gladly partner with the Indian defence industry across numerous areas in order to fulfil the IAF requirement.

Given the high-cost of inducting a new platform, and the reality that the Rafale was chosen for the IAF’s original MMRCA tender, it is likely – after signing the initial sale – that the IAF will request follow-on batches of the Rafale.

Meanwhile, other vendors – namely Saab, Boeing, and Lockheed Martin – are looking to capitalize upon the apparent uncertainty in the Rafale deal. Using the Indian government’s “Make in India” initiative, Saab et. al are promising to manufacture in India should the IAF select their respective aircraft.

Britain and France finalize landmark UCAV development program

Britain and France agreed to spend $2.2 billion U.S. in developing a new unmanned combat aerial vehicle (UCAV) demonstrator, which could be developed into an operational system by the 2030s.

A feasibility study will be conducted by the end of October, at which point the French and the British will agree upon the UCAV’s dimensions (e.g. size) as well as its powerplant.

The UCAV program is being billed by both government as “the most advanced of its kind in Europe.”

The Anglo-Franco UCAV will likely be very similar in scope to the Northrop Grumman X-47B demonstrator, which was developed as part of the U.S. Navy’s Unmanned Combat Air System Demonstration program.

 

  • Ashi Sidhu

    Indian pressure has not gone in vain now Pakistan must take action against all terror groups

    • MO

      That will be a reciprocal approach. U calloff ur ttp and baloch proxies b4 pakistan asks to lower the anger of kashmiris freedom fighters. …. But i guess pakistani mil has already taken care of that, so i guess it has to be Indian call

      • MT

        Gone are those days once Pak could carry on supporting LeT, Jaish–
        India catches and encounters 20-30 Pakistani /Punjabi terrrorist in Kashmir yearly
        Pakistan have limited options– It cant continue to use terrorism as state policy.

        How many Indians are caught in balochista/KPK??

        • MO

          How many pakistanis r caught… None. The kasmiris r more than ready to die for their cause, so there is no need to spill pakistani blood. Its upto u as a commoner avg minded indian to live in denial. Kashmirs were, are and kashmiri will continue to hate indians as far as their rights are suppressed. If ur 700000 rapee military has failed, so nothing else can stop them from fighting for their just cause of self determination

          • MT

            in last 1 week 3-4 pakistani /punjabi terrorist were shot dead in kashmir

            wabahi kashmirI od valley are only trouble makers. all other sufi;barelwi,my shia kashmiri brothers;gujjars are pro india.
            I have many shia friends from kashmir and they hate pakistan to the core.

            Indian troop are there to save kashmir from pak sponsored terrorist,wahabi kashmiri who raise ISIS flags weekly.
            Inshallah we will continue to fight for our motherland

          • jigsaww

            Kindly keep shia and sunni out of this. You are an indian and that sums it all up. You have nothing to do with Pakistan or religion, so keep it out.

            I would request Pakistanis to be cautious of his person. He is basically of “Fasadi” nature which he preaches occasionally. Treat him as an indian irrespective of what he shows himself as here.

          • A Rashid

            I assumed him from the start as an Indian Hindu. He passes the Duck Test – “If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck”.

          • jigsaww

            What are you babbling about. I am of Kashmiri descent and I hate India for its occupation of J&K, its blanket ban on media, its habitual lies on kashmir, its forces occupying/raping the state illegally, and for the treatment it has given to Kashmiris. I diss you people for your cruelty.

            Read what HRW and amnesty international has written about indian occupation of Kashmir, every year they come with new crime reports and human violations. J&K never belonged to India legally and on democratic principle. If it wasn’t for mountbatten, giving gurdaspur to India (when it belonged to Pakistan), India would not even have been able to occupy J&K. Everyone knows partition was deliberately made a mess by giving india illegally land of gurdaspur which led to illegal occupation, denying the vote to kashmiris when 90% of them sided with Pakistan whereas the state of junagarh was forcefully put under vote despite the muslim ruler siding with Pakistan, exposing indian hypocrisy

            This is the kind of treachery Pakistan and Kashmir has seen of India.

            Pakistan is the rightful owner of state of J&K, and where the land reality shows this in azad kashmir without curfews, killings, human right violations, or ban of media. You people are pathetically shameful and i wait the day Pakistani army will cleanse indian infestation from all kashmir.

    • jigsaww

      That would include F-16 precision strikes on indian consulates in Afghanistan – the root of all evil flowing into Pakistan. The rest is cleared already.

      • MT

        Pakistan taliban were ally of mushharraf.

        for India, all of these deobandi wahabi have no significance

  • jigsaww

    There is no sense in acquiring F-16s without FMF support, unless US guarantees PAF full authority over these machines with nuclear capability and integration of further weapon system including anti-shipping capability – as per PAF’s demands.

    Someone should have explained things of simple logic to these simpleton US senators that when you “sell” something you are liable to provide full authority to the buyer as well.

    I think for PAF then, such a purchase does not make any sense and these concerns are well noted in PAF as well. If the deal goes down, US stands to lose more in a strategic relationship. Though there is still strong chance that deal will eventually be funded thru FMF.

    Regarding the Rafale, the deal has already dragged on for more than 10 years now, with the G2G deal also taking more than a year now. By the time, and if, the deal is signed, it will already be a procurement of the past. If the deal is not signed in another 2 years, PAF has no major reasons to worry about first rafales arriving around 2020 with 2 squadrons completing not before 2025 or so – a time when PAF’s will be on verge of introducing a 5th gen platform.

    • MT

      India is not buying those 36 rafale rafale worth 13 bill$-

      There is high probability to assemble/license produce 100 F-18/F-16 V block in India!
      Which 5th Generation Pakistan is getting???

      The time, US quits afghanistan; you can say bye bye to american FMS, CSF funds and those free F16

      American are under pressure from other countries- They want credible results from these 8 F-16.. If Pak is not able to solve afghan mess with in next 12months,then you can expect tightening of american, IMF aid which could result into military sanction of ally which is in collusion with terrorist!

      • The U.S. isn’t in Afghanistan for the sake of Afghanistan, it is in Afghanistan in order to maintain a solid strategic foothold in Central and South Asia.

        Feasibly maintaining that hold requires Pakistan, who in turn will need to pacify its side of the border such that instability and insurgent momentum don’t adversely impact Afghanistan. There are more subtle realities at play too, such as the Pakhtun and non-Pakthun rivalry; but Pakistan is part of the equation.

        Thus I assure you, the U.S. isn’t leaving the region unless it actually does become unfeasible.

        • MT

          1. US does need the strategic depth but it want stable afghanistan-
          American senators have tolerated Pak’s double game nuisance for 15long years. Their patience is running out–There is overwhelming consensus on Pak’s duplicity.Pakistan inability to bring taliban to table will mean that Pakistan collusion in keeping afghan unstable & its desire to keep US stuck in region so that it can keep collecting cheques for no work!

          The aid to Pakistan will be properly scrutinized with results Pak produces!
          => What good is Pakistan for US if Taliban continue to gain more territory and Pak army allows the taliban leadership to foster unchecked in Pakistan..

          Most of young senators and pentagon administration are aware that US lost a lot in afghanistan–

          american main aim is to focus on China–Its not interested in fighting zombies proxy islamist–So they would want to wrap up the war missions & coerce Taliban to join the government!

          2. Indian defense minister is not ready to pay more than 9 bill $ on Rafale–

          Gripen uses most of western components including engines-India airforce is sick of Russian engines & parts uses in Su30 which have poor serviceability of 55-60%–India doesnt wish to add 1 more russian platform–Tata will team up with Sukhoi & make parts for Su30 & aim is to bring up the serviceability to 70-75 % over 24months!
          India airforce will order More su30 depending upon serviceability factor

          3. India is very likely to buy F16 V or F18 as part of Make in India!

          For that to happen successfully, Indian defense minister needs to sack IAF chief or wait for him to retire! The prick is systematically campaigning for 400 mill$ unit Rafael… Indian govt will be charged with serious corruption/in-accountability by CAG auditors in 2018-19 prior to 2019 election if Defense minister agrees to buy these birds for 12 bill$

          IAF chief’s comments on no plan B emboldened Rafale to be strict with price negotiation!

          But with Parikar as Defense minster: we are assured that Rafal price negotiation will go on for ever before one sides gets frustrated & decides to give up!

          IAF will have to focus on Tejas, F16/F-18 and Su30 MKI!

          Defense minister is adamant about american system for make in India! Boeing and Lockheed martin both are pushing for their fighter planes

          • The U.S. is maintaining a firm foothold in Afghanistan. Yes, the Taliban threat necessitates a heavier than desired military presence (the U.S. would prefer 0 troops over 0+X, it’s cheaper), but the foothold is there, and the U.S. plans to stay for a while (read: permanently).

            As for Pakistan supporting the Taliban. There are certainly elements of society who are sympathetic to the Taliban, for they are viewed by many as a resistance force against foreign occupation. But the Pakistan Govt’ and military are firmly against them, otherwise there wouldn’t have been a $2bn/year operation in North Waziristan.

            It’s one thing to question Pakistan if we are talking about few sporadic air strikes and random raids, but the operations in FATA are of full-scale. An entire army corps has been committed to the border, with an increasing number of soldiers being trained and equipped for COIN.

            The U.S. understands this well, hence its desire to keep funneling aid to the Pakistani military, either via CSF or FMF.

            As for India and Rafale. The F/A-18E/F would make for an interesting option, it can be used aboard your carriers as well, and standardization isn’t a bad thing. But I wonder if the IAF will – for the sake of adding complexity to the situation – go for Gripen NG. Saab is offering full ToT, and the engine is a variant of what you’re using on Tejas. The only thing you will need to worry about is radar, avionics and munition, which you’ll probably source from Israel.

          • jigsaww

            Kindly provide a single example of a country where USA intervened in its entire history and then left it in a stable condition. The only possibility here is that either you absolutely have no idea of how americans operate strategically or you are simply fabricating this.

            I understand there is a new found love in india for US and indians are trying their level best to be the pawn US needs in south asia (again all in their Pakistan-hate), but please show some least symptoms of common sense and general know how of the planet you live on.

        • MO

          u need to allow my reply above to retard MT….I have burned my mid night oil on it

        • MO

          I am disappointed that u allowed an indian to respond thrice to me while u r not allowing me as a Pakistani to give one big reply to this indian. Very sad indeed

      • jigsaww

        12 years in the Rafale’s sorry tale.
        Another 12 years to get an F-16/F-18 facility in local production. Go on. Whose stopping you? Just try to man up instead of whining on Pakistani procurements.

        I think you should be more concerned about indians getting chocked to death like rats once US leaves afghanistan. That should be your real worry because Pakistan will never allow any space to India or RAW to operate from afghanistan to terrorise Pakistan, not to mention that your current reality is that your one foot is on US’s shoulder and other on Afghan gov shoulder for your entire existence in afghanistan. India was never a threat in itself to Pakistan from western side, it’s just the indo-afghan-US nexus that US is paying up for to destabalize pakistan that india is benefitting from. My advice to you would be to not let go of US shoulder, because you’re going to fall flat on your faces.

        Though i believe that you have no understanding whatsoever of the geopolitics of the region when you say that US plans on exiting from afghanistan (no it does not) and this stems from that fact that india has no vision or objective in afghanistan. It’s mere existence there is to export terrorism into pakistan, now a state owned publicly announced policy towards Pakistan. Know this. As long as US is in afghanistan, pakistan will always be more important to US than india could ever bet on being despite both indian and US not wanting this.

        Your little vision driven with Pakistan hate sickens me, but that is what is going to bring India down as well. Go on play your game.

        • MT

          UPa & congress epitomized mediocrity– there was no need to put strict tenders which were utter waste of time

          New govt believes in govt to govt deals– India may buy rafale if they agree to deliver those 36 rafale for 9 bill$.

          F-16 & F-18 V will be direct company to company deal—Boeing have teamed up with Tata Aerospace– All they want from Indian govt is to place orders for 100 F-18 fighters immediately!

          All your rants about Indian interference in Afghanistan is wicked imagination of Pak ISPR lies. The dossiers presented by Pak govt were thrown in iggy bin.

          • jigsaww

            You mean like the so called proof provided by india on 26/11 to US/UK thrown to garbage?

            These are no rants. These are ground realities, which your limited vision is unable to even read thru properly. Heck you can’t even make out why US is there in first place. Each one of the stakeholder (including india, though its no stakeholder) knows what and how india is surviving or will survive should the US exit Afg, which again was never a thing in first place. There has never been a country that has won a proxy war in Afghanistan when it was faced with Pakistan. I can assure you Afghanistan will be disinfected from indian infection on priority basis if ever the US leaves Afghanistan. Your leadership knows this, hence all the begging for US to not exit.

            I don’t need excuses. It’s just signs of an incapable and confused nation when it can’t make out and plan what it wants and what not. We’ll believe it when we see it. and stop crying.

          • MT

            1. Pbs Frontline, guardian, Nytimes, MI5/6 have full proof of Pk involvement in 26/11.
            They have published entire data /proof trail in Dec 2014 publication!

            MI5 global NSA submarine data gathering system have tonns of proofs.
            Pak Ex FIA chief investigator have admitted Pak role in 26/11

            2. US will never quit afghanistan but it doesnt want any war with taliban–It wants to have permanent limited presence without any useless war with wahabi zombies
            Its paying extortion to Pak & expect Pak to solve the mess. If pak is unable to get them to talks then it will lose whatever limited credibility in Pentagon

            3. India is not affected by american presence in afghanistan– Pak will be bankrupt if US quits the region and stops paying you 2-3 bill$ doles
            India is strong enough to handle Pakistan!

            4. Indian previous defense minister was incapable – Rafale would have costed 6-7 bill if we have purchased them 5-6 yrs ago!

            The deal is not going to materialize bcoz of the cost–

            5,. India have made its mind to buy F-18 on govt to govt notice with involvement of 1 Indian private company!

          • MO

            Indian success story is acknowledged in space. Thnx to russian provided cryogenic rockets and expertise. Indians have researched as aresult from imported technogy and shown progress. There is nothing indigenous in space program. Where indians tried to be partially indigenous, indians continue with a abysmal performance. Especially in defence sector. Drdo copied isreis bur miserably failed in nishant. After 15 years of development and r&d, nishant is no more in production., thnx to multiple crashes. Another biggest disgrace story is tejas or shall i call it a tweety bird. No nation in the world thatclaims to be independdnt and self reliant in r&d will spent 33years on junk like tweety bird tejas. I mean what u produced has been out rightly rejected by iaf. Only after govt interference did the airforce ordered 100+ platforms, thus saving drdo of embarrassment. I can very well understand the frustration of iaf given such a low quality pkatform. Whata disgrace.
            All the successes has been where foreign made technology has been reproduced only. Another junk, or a white elephant arjun rank, the60 ton crap of steel has only received 50 orders from army.
            Pakistan doesnot need to compare ur bloated figures. Pakistan is neother in competition woth india. But it will sure produce weapons of quality to keep indians at bay for deterrance.
            No indian weapon is indigenoys. So stop this cow crap that u gjys have a very large r&d base. In civil sector yes, but abysmally failed r&d in defence. So all u can do is reverse engineer.

            Examples are
            agni with cryogenic roc ket technology, that forced bkris yelsin to stop its transfer to india inb90s
            pritjvi with sa2 missile propulsion system

            Akash by israelis, since it was initially integrated with green line radar.

            I dont even want to touch upon the russian cruise missile technoligy used in under development nirbhay cruise missile. A failure so far.

            And no mention of white elephant arjun tank and tweety bird, u will miserably fail in ur argument.

            As for pakistanis ecnomy, well we are a reselient nation. International rogue agencies like raw, nds and mossad role is very well known to Pakistani. Despite the wasted effort, Pakistan has not turned into syria or iraq. Thanx to strong military and above all national will.
            Read article by think tanks on why pakistan refuses to fail. Also go cx economy ratings by standard and poor about pakistan. U will be so disappointed.

            We in pakistan r very well aware of indian designs, thats why we r a step ahead in introducing technolgy, with all success stories.
            Babur cruise missile that will render indian billiosn of dollars investment in s400 useless.
            Raad cruise missule that will render ur air defenses, again, useless.
            Hafr short range tact nukes to nuke ur cild stary strategy. Neutralizing urproxies in Afghanistan and shunting out indians fron aghan peace process.

            Go ahead and burn ur fuel with stupid figures. Our people r clever enough to frustrate indian moves.

            And very reason that infian obsession still remains with Pakistan… That is our greatest success….. Moron

          • MT

            1. Russia never provided cryogenic technology to India–
            source: “The arrangements were denounced by American President George Bush as a violation of the MTCR. In May 1992 the United States slapped sanctions on ISRO and Glavkosmos. “India objected strongly to the American actions, pointing out that high-powered hydrogen-fuelled upper stages which took a long time to prepare were of little military value,” writes Harvey.

            Under the revised Russia-India agreement in January 1994, Moscow agreed to transfer three, later renegotiated by India to seven fully assembled KVD-1 engines” for usage in GSLV-

            2. India took 20 yrs to make their own cryogenics–7 Russian cryogenics were used for time being in Geostationary satellite launch
            until india developed its own in 2010.

            3. Nishant never failed–There was problem with parachute recovery system which led to those crashes.Parachute technology became an obsoltete platform which is replaced by DRDP panchi, Rustom–

            4. Tejas is indeed better aircraft than Mig33/JF17– Look at the thrust to weight ratio, BVR capability, radar,engine FADEC, Digitlal fly by wire,avionics, distance to take off– Chinese JF17 is poor on all these parameters

            5. Arjun tank have got less orders bcoz MK1 was only 45% local which made them costly–The Tank will never be production until we can produce them cheaply–DRDO 1500 HP engine is coming up—Turret, barrel, armour & fire control tech is developed–

            Arjun tank II is 60% indigenous but still costlier than T-90- Why should army buy a costlier tank if it has access to cheap T-90-
            So the aim of Arjun development is to learn all tech as preface to Future Main battle tank development

            6. Look at the Indian parliament figures of level of indigenous content in DRDO weapons published this week in parliament

            7. India is moving towards high indigenous content & matured R&D– DRDO Awacs are 85% indigenous minus the aircraft–Indian radars are 90% indigenous

            8– You are technically illiterate– Agni all stages are solid fuel engine– Cryogenic is liquid fuel( Liquid o2 and liquid h2 as fuel) which can be only used in space technology.

            As I said before that cyrogenic tech is of no use to missiles–

            Anyway Russia stopped the transfer but India developed on its own in other 15-20 yrs– Indian cryogenics design is based on gas generator which is different from Russian cryogenic used in Proton and other rockets

            9. Project devil was all about reverse engineering russian SA-2 in 1970–Russia didnt provide TOT for it– Indian scientist practically opened every part of it and rev engineered them–So did chinese with scud missiles in 1960’s

            10.Akash is completely indian product.. I dont understand how Akash can be integrated with green line radar.

            Akash used Indian 3 D radars which have indian fire control system

            11. There is nothing russian in Nirbhay cruise missile– We all know how Pak procured babur from China & denel from south africa-

            .

            12- Babur is obsolete cruise missile with nothing made in Pakistan–It uses 90-100% chinese system including inerntial navigation, flight control, guidance–even the lathe of frame assmebling were imported from china

            Source: ” China has supplied Pakistan’s NESCOM with the jigs, lathes and moulding/machining/milling tooling required for fabricating the LACM’s sub-assemblies.[6] A 1995 Russian document suggested a complete production facility had been transferred to Shanghai, for the development of a nuclear-armed cruise missile.”

            Barak8 and Akash is sufficient for cheap babur!! S-400 can take on all your chinse M11/M18 Shaheen ballistic missiles

            Denel made Raad for Pakistan =>

            The PAF by April 1999 had commenced contractual negotiations with [[Denel Dynamics]] Aerospace of South Africa for co-development of a family of ALCMs under Project H-4. The first ALCM to be developed under Project H-4 was a 120 km-range surgical missile armed with high-explosive runway-cratering bomblets, as well as a passive radiation seeker for targeting hostile ground-based air defence radars. This is a derivative of the MUPSOW ALCM that has been under development by Kentron since the early 1990s and incorporates twin side-mounted air intakes and fixed horizontal and vertical tailfins. Following two successful qualification flights of the MUPSOW, Pakistan and Kentron (Denel) began work on developing the ‘Raad’ by carrying out minor modifications to the MUPSOW’s airframe, which included a stretched fuselage, a fixed ventral air intake and twin vertical tailfins, and incorporation of twin swivelling horizontal fins

          • MT

            The below report is made by CAG auditors & were tabled in Indian upper parliament!

            DRDO has been making all possible efforts to increase indigenous content in DRDO products. The percentage of import content in some of the major DRDO systems are given below:

            System

            Import Content

            (in %)

            Airborne Early Warning & Control (AEW&C) System (excluding Aircraft)

            16

            Pilotless Target Aircraft (PTA), Lakshya

            5 – 7

            Remotely Piloted Vehicle (RPV), Nishant

            10

            Aircraft Arrester Barrier

            5

            Light Combat Aircraft (LCA)

            40

            Combat Free Fall System

            35

            Parachutes

            0

            Heavy Drop System

            10

            Agni Missile

            15

            Prithvi Missile

            15

            Akash Missile

            10

            Nag Missile

            30

            Supersonic Cruise Missile, BrahMos

            65

            Long Range Surface to Air Missile (LR-SAM)

            60

            Multi Barrel Rocket System-Pinaka

            10

            MBT Arjun

            55

            Radars

            10

            Electronic Warfare Systems

            5 – 30

            Sonars

            5 – 30

            Pocket Dosimeter

            12

            Portable Dose Rate Meter

            9

            Roentegnometer

            6

            NBC Recce Vehicle

            5

            =>

          • MT

            Cryogenic is rarely used by Indian launch vehicle.
            Most of indian launchers:PSLV are made up of liquid fyek: nitrogen tetra oxide & solid fuels.

            Cryogenic is only used by GSLV.

            u can read more on indian new cryogenic engine CE20 which is based on gas generation cycle.
            It has no similarly to any of Russian or American cryogenic.

            For your kind info: Russia transferred cryogenic TOT to china while india was bannned by US with some frivolous MTCR guidelines.

            Do remember that india despite having 2 decades late start in cryogenic have among top 3 best cryogenic engine better than japan, china.

            Indian engine Ce20 produces 200kn thrust as compared to chinese YH73,YH75. Chinese Yh77 is still under development

          • jigsaww

            Whereas the wikileaks is saying something completely different on 26/11. You people are so full of ___, fill it in yourself. Habitual liars and fabricators. That also includes the so-called indian R&D capabilities you are desperately to prove here because as it stands, india is importing 90% if its weaponry from outside and to justify that it has feed its nation with fabrications of such sort. The rest 10% includes uniforms and curry packs for troops.

            Here is an excerpt for your further learning on 26/11.

            US, UK rubbished India’s ‘evidence’ against Pakistan in Mumbai attacks, says Wikileaks

            Following Pathankot attack, the Indian media and government authorities have been referring to Mumbai attack as Pakistan’s work despite the fact that the Wikileaks had shown both the US and the British authorities trashing Indian so-called evidence against Pakistan.

            Publicly both Washington and London have been shy to embarrass India and avoided rejecting her allegation against Pakistan but the Wikileaks showed the two trashing Indian claims about the involvement of either Pakistan’s prime intelligence agency- the ISI- or even senior leaders of a proscribed organisation.

          • MT

            Wow…Keep citing fake wikileak cable

            Pakistani media: Fake WikiLeaks cables attacking India published
            Source: The express tribune,Pakistan

            Guardian:Pakistani media publish fake WikiLeaks cables attacking India
            Comments alleged to be from WikiLeaks!

          • jigsaww

            Why? cuz it does not comply to the “truth” being told you half brained indians or you are too stubborn to accept the reality? You’re not doing anything out of ordinary. It’s classical indian behaviour to call everything a lie that supposedly trumps its stupid fabrications.

            You people are selling to the world some muslim calling to “bhagwan” as your proof. Pathetic to even start with.

            The truth is, 26/11 was a pretext to so called exercising of indian coldstart doctrine (that india has been toying with since 2002), that was then laid to rest by lack of balls of indian leadership/military and the Pakistani more than effective response to coldstart in shape of Nasr.

            You then tried after pathankot drama, we kept waiting. Your IAF never showed up and possibly kept weighing its balls. Instead we have witnessed a national mental disorder over release of 8 F-18s, where 10 more seem to be coming too.

            Enjoy the trauma.

          • MT

            1. Why dont you cite the info from reliable source.I gave you report from your own newspaper, Guardian which talk about fake wikileak published in pakistan accusing India on 26/11 & other contorted stories!

            Once you are exposed on that fake wikileak story, you start hurling fake allegation

            2. 26/11 & recent pathankot attack are all Pak sponsored terror attacks-

            India kills 20-30 Pakistani terrorist yearly in kashmir–All pathankot terrorist were punjabi from pakistan! The proof of jaish involvement & LeT has been accepted by Pak govt for pathankot and 26/11 attack

            3. cold start doctorine is a myth–It doesnt exist on paper

            4. India will protest any sale of american weapons which are funded by american taxpayers to a regime that harbors taliban in its soil!

            Lets see if you can get even these eight F-16 with those subsidy:)

            US will not sell any weapons to Pakistan until pak delivers the ceasefire in afghanistan!

          • jigsaww

            You retard. This is from the same source that first published the wrong story of 26/11 blaming pakistan on indian behest. so either shut up or put up to accept that because you retards have been citing this media source as your pathetic source for 26/11. im just throwin your own crap in your face. Otherwise, there is every evidence on other sites. google yourself. im not spoonfeeding retards here.
            i dont need to put allegations on a criminal. You people are inherently criminal at every level when you support a criminal like Modi in power, a convicted felon.

          • MT

            Show me the wiki leak cable which says this :”US, UK rubbished India’s ‘evidence’ against Pakistan in Mumbai attacks, says Wikileaks”

            This news report from Pakistan is fake–There is no wikileak cable which says so

          • jigsaww

            Make up your mind first, you want to accept this source as an acceptable source or not. This cherry picking is only a disposition of your dual faced hypocrisy.

            There has not been any rejection of the cable by any stakeholder except india. So with that, your argument is also trashed for being dubious, cherry picked, and lacking any logic whatsoever.

            This is a national indian approach to everything. Cherry pick what serves indian designs and blame everything on Pakistan.

            Likewise so…

            For Pakistan, india is the country that has been sponsoring terrorism into Pakistan from Afghanistan and before that in 1971 by creating a terrorist outfit mukti bahni and carrying out a cowardice attack on its neighbour when it was an internal Pakistan matter in name of some twisted refugee problem (where today on the same border the same india is building the world’s biggest wall) with a 15:1 number ratio of forces. For pakistan, india has carried out 26/11 itself as well as pathankot to keep its public hysterical about Pakistan. India has a publicly announced policy of exporting and using terrorism as a tool towards Pakistan and that is its sole purpose of existence in Afghanistan. For Pakistan, India is a state sponsor of terrorism and a terrorist country ruled by thugs and criminals of the likes of Modi where sane civilians are oppressed for raising their voices against indian cruelty in Kashmir and more. Pakistani public and its military is completely clear of this position on India. The political problem does not count since general pakistani public considers majority of the political elite corrupt and working against pakistani interests, the same is true for majority of pakistani media houses, both of which india uses as its pathetic sources against pakistan but has consistently failed.

          • MT

            Try harder, it might get published in satire news—-

            Pakistan president, PM, & many media persons including FIA investigator have accepted Pak terror hands in Lashkar attack on 26/11

            PAK interior minister hav accepted Jaish handlers involvement in pathankot!

            The world community treat Pak as epicenter of terrorism– As long as Hafiz saeed, Jaish muhammad, dawood ibrhaim, afghan taliban lives in Pak; India will continue to brand Pak as terrorist regime!

            For Pakistan economic development can never be achieved until you shut down those camps–Otherwise, we will continue to set the narrative of pak being hub of sanctuary!

            Rest everything you write is imaginary & were even dumped by your foreign minister

            Dawn News =>

            Dossiers on India have no ‘material evidence’

            BAQIR SAJJAD SYED — PUBLISHED NOV 20, 2015 06:36AM

            Feel sad for Pakistanis who are treated as terrorist!

            => Aziz admits Pakistan housing Afghan Taliban leaders
            ABUBAKAR SIDDIQUE — UPDATED MAR 03, 2016 07:57AM

            This news was on the 1st front page in international newspaper!!

          • jigsaww

            Schmuck. I live in Europe and US. I’ve traveled the world more than you have ever gotten out of that slum of yours in your entire life time.
            Sure. We have a fatwa from a half hindu half something else, about Allah not supporting sinners but siding with your Kafir masters against sinner muslims. That makes a lot of sense i must say. Some twisted mullah you are. There were schmuck mullah’s of your class making these kind of childish statements at time of creation of Pakistan too. You people are pathetic.

            Let me tell you something. I spit on india and being associated with India in anyway. In 2007, i resigned from my job simply because i was being relocated to India to work there for a while, and i was plain and cold in telling them i do not set foot on that filthy soil where cruelty and hate against Pakistan is the order of the day. So i’m not sure what Pakistanis are you talking about showing as indians because frankly, even if Pakistanis tried, they couldn’t fake fraction of the ugliness of you indians exhibit even before you open your mouths.

            There is not a single neighbor of india that likes indians. Nepal, bhutan, sri lanka, china, pakistan, myanmar…each and every neighbor hates and disses you indians. Kashmires are being suppressed and so are south indians and naxals.

            Sick of you.

          • MO

            You nailed it bro… Bullseye

          • MO

            ask your d..k jead PM singh who accepted dossiers from Pakistani PM in 2009 during a summit in Sharel Sheikh. Everything handed down has the requiste evidence along with local and foreign contacts and funding sources. looks like ur job is wasting time on this site. but u will get everything back in your filthy blacky face

          • MT

            Manmohan was too old and senile.

            Us govt, Pak foreign minister don’t believe in those ISPR lies. Dossier was put in iggy bin by sartaz

            Aziz.Dossiers on India have no ‘material evidence’:Dawn news

          • jigsaww

            Yeah blame it on the old man now. Told you. Classical indian behaviour. Retard, its not like he was sent there alone on a tricycle with a chooseni in his mouth to meet pakistani team. There was a whole bunch of indians caught with pants down there. Now that makes each one of them old and senile i’d say.

          • MT

            All I know is that india may have received some dossier but it didn’t approve of the proof & substance which were all found to be frivolous.

            Sardar may have been drooling & didn’t realize what type of documents were given to him in 1-1 discussion with pak pm

          • jigsaww

            He is in constant state of denial. It’s like banging your head with a wall.

          • SP

            The only countries playing double game are the US which is stating to be an ally of Pakistan but in fact is working to weaken it whilst bolstering India.

            India is also playing double game by getting as much from the US including its leverage with Pakistan but also being in the Soviet camp and improving relations with China.

            Until 2003 Pakistan had higher GDP per capita than India.

          • MT

            How Usa is weakening pakistan by giving them 40bill$ aid since 9/11 while pak was bankrupt economy before 9/11.

            india on other hand paid premium price to buy american weapons.

            I fail to understand madrassa logic. Pak was defaulting on debt. Usa helped pak with debt reschedule & provided it with GSP which help pak export billion$ more goods.

            India on the other hand got no such preferential treatment.

            pak have been backstabbing Usa for 15 yrs supporting taliban terrorist kill thousands of afghani,american soldiers.

            If china were Usa & were dealing pak post their 9/11 then they would have sanctioned pak militarily and economically.

            Pak is lucky to get away while its biggest terrorist hub in asia.

            Indian message to usa is clear.If u aid terrorist countries with free doles of f16 then you forget any assistance from us in indian ocean and south china sea

          • SP

            Pakistan may have been struggling following sanctions for nuclear explosions but it was in the process of making the right choices to rebuild its economy.

            What the US has offered since has either gone on corruption or to reimburse Pakistan for costs incurred in helping the US. The economic loss to Pakistan due to the US invasion is many times what Pakistan has received. Pakistan has been a net loser. In 2003 Pakistan had a higher GDP per capita than India but since the US invasion Pakistan has fallen behind India economically.

          • MT

            Pak had no loss to economy. it was bankrupt country nd if there were no 26/11; pak would have defaulted on debt by 2005.
            Musharraf era saw big economic gain driven by american aid.

            Pak economy got boost from Afghanistan war in 1980.
            You were alwya on down slide the time usa Santioned india and pak.
            India could progress despite sanction while pak always needed doles
            Pak doesn’t have anything much to produce with no significant industrial capabilities.
            so there is no industry which got affected from war.

            Pak main industries: agricultural,food processing,textil,leather nd surgical equipment have grown by leaps & bounds for last20yrs.

            so I fail to understand the fake loss theory devised by jinn school of economics.

            Pak reimbursement is gimmick with bloated bills. pak Doesn’t provide any service to usa minus allowing some trucks to pass by. Truck transport business help pak economy.

            Majority of usa equipment in Afghanistan are smuggled nd sold as scrap price to pak military( I don’t even include them as aid)

            pak have benefited 40bill$ from US +aid from eu,asia+gsp status which are all extracted in dubious war where pak is frenemy of usa and west.

            Pak military have received 10-15 bill$ free military equipment from usa.

            So how is Usa helping india & weakening pak.

            India have paid premium prices to buy american weapons whil usa arms terrorist regime which has back stabbed usa for 15 yrs

          • SP

            Since a big chunk of Pakistan economy is undocumented even now the actual per capita income of Pakistani is probably higher than that of India.

            In India if you exclude the Tatas and the Ambanis most of the population is living in poverty.

            US could not invade Afghanistan without support from Pakistan. Pakistan provided the logistics to make the invasion possible and to maintain the occupation force there for over a decade. Pakistani infrastructure made it possible. The US and Indian then created terrorists in Pakistan and tried to destabilise the country. Pakistan lost thousands of its citizens and soldiers. Pakistans image got damaged due to bomb blasts every week. Investment slowed down and people were frightened to travel to Pakistan. Now the economy is starting to grow again as the occupation comes to an end and US and Indian proxies are mostly eliminated.

          • MT

            Little education to many pakistani’s required about india

            1. India is the 7th largest economy by nominal and 3rd largest by GDP PPP

            2. India is the 3rd largest producer of electricity in the world

            3. India now become 3rd largest consumer of oil overtaking japan

            4. India going to overtake japan in 2016 as the 2nd largest producer of steel

            5. India road and rail network is one of the biggest in the world

            6. India is one of the biggest Software and Pharmaceutical industry in the world

            7. India is one of the biggest producer of cement and coal

            8. India have one of the largest pool of engineers,doctors,technicians in the world

            9. India is one of the biggest soft power in the world

            10. India is home to largest film industry in the world

            11. India is having the largest remittance figure in the world

            12. India is the top producer of many agricultural products,Milk in the world

            13. India is the 4th most powerful military in the world

            14. India is home to one of the largest billionaires in the world

            15. The largest refinery in the world located in india

            16. India is one of the biggest space power, only country successfully sending mars probe in first attempt

            17. India is the largest consumer of gold.

            18. India is the fastest growing major economy in the world

            19. India stock exchanges having total 3.350 trillion dollar market cap

            Now pakistan can compare each and every parameters above and see where they stand vs india.I know they are a small market but even in relative to population also pakistan do not have any match vs india.

          • jigsaww

            Are you on medication or something?
            What does it have to do with the topic or my comment?

            On that note, add that india also is both the largest producer and consumer of poverty in the world, and in any other worlds should they exist.

          • SP

            Before you get too carried away with bearing your own drums the GDP of India is still at best $1700 which is under $5 a day. If you take out the Tatas and the Ambanis then most of your population is living in poverty. Even Nigeria has higher GDP per capita than India.

          • MT

            india has manufacturing industrial scale in both civil and defense.

            it spends 2-3times more % resources on education and health than pak while R&D budget is 5 times higher in %

            Indian literacy is far higher than pak including female literacy where pak has most no of kids outside school

  • SP

    PAF leadership needs to overcome its fascination with the US and learn lessons from the past. A country that is intent on bolstering your enemy and has been fighting a propaganda war against Pakistan along with India, a country for whom Pakistan has bled since 1979 cannot be worthy of friendship. Pakistan will only realise its potential when it gives up its fascination with US….JF-17 being a prime product of what Pakistan is capable of achieving when it stops looking at US.

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